Rate the Guthrie trade (Poll)

[weams]

Do we know Colorado isn't interested in extending him? Seems like outside of Pomeranz' date=' who they got in trade, they've bombed pretty bad when it comes to drafting/developing pitchers.[/quote']

No, we sure don't. But I know what Jeremy's asking price is, and unless he excels in the worst park in America for him to pitch in, I bet it is a rental.

[Birds of B'more]

Of course I don't know. But I am confident that him settling and him losing were more likely than him winning, and this settlement shows that. And no, your theory doesn't make sense about purposefully leaving 2 million on the table for some sort of negotiating benefit of an extension that we don't even know is or will be worked on.

I'm just assuming that you didn't know what Hammel and Lindstrom were being paid when you made your saving money comment, and now don't want to admit it. If not, well your argument doesn't hold water imo.

I knew what they were making. My comment was based on the belief that the Orioles thought there was a decent chance they might lose the arbitration hearing and shipped Guthrie out as a preemptive move to get what they felt is more value (2 players for the price of 1 + a little more if Guthrie won). And knowing PA it wouldn't surprise me if it was partially based on maintaining his/Smouse's unblemished arbitration record....since with a young team they may likely be headed for arbitration a lot over the next few years and would like to have that record to use as leverage in negotiations.

[Birds of B'more]

No, we sure don't. But I know what Jeremy's asking price is, and unless he excels in the worst park in America for him to pitch in, I bet it is a rental.

Yeah, going to Coors doesn't help him, especially with his propensity for giving up HRs.

[mweb]

If they thought they might lose, they could have simply upped their settlement offer.

[weams]

Yeah' date=' going to Coors doesn't help him, especially with his propensity for giving up HRs.[/quote']

Four years of control of pitching in exchange for one.

[weams]

I knew what they were making. My comment was based on the belief that the Orioles thought there was a decent chance they might lose the arbitration hearing and shipped Guthrie out as a preemptive move to get what they felt is more value (2 players for the price of 1 + a little more if Guthrie won). And knowing PA it wouldn't surprise me if it was partially based on maintaining his/Smouse's unblemished arbitration record....since with a young team they may likely be headed for arbitration a lot over the next few years and would like to have that record to use as leverage in negotiations.

BTW, Smouse doesn't need help to win. The case against Jeremy would have been brutal. The Orioles showed mercy. Jeremy had no idea what was goining to hit him, he is a somewhat prideful guy.

[Birds of B'more]

If they thought they might lose, they could have simply upped their settlement offer.

Maybe Guthrie didn't want to settle with the O's because he knew they would only trade him or cut him loose after the season....whereas maybe he sees a better opportunity for an extension in Colorado and was more willing to settle.

[mweb]

Maybe Guthrie didn't want to settle with the O's because he knew they would only trade him or cut him loose after the season....whereas maybe he sees a better opportunity for an extension in Colorado and was more willing to settle.

Lots of theories to reach the conclusion that the O's did this to save money, when they likely would have won the hearing anyway, and even if they lost, this didn't exactly save them a ton of money, not nearly as much as they could have in a Guthrie trade.

I think this trade should be evaluated on it's merits without the thought that the O's were somehow being cheap with this. And if they are saving money on it, great, that should be viewed as a positive.

[utvolzac]

I do not like this trade, mostly because much like the rest of the off-season, it is pointless to the long term development of the team.

I also do not think Hammels is going to fare well in the AL East again. The Coors Field effect hasn't been nearly the issue it's been in the past since they started with the humidor. If he pitches a mid 4 era in the NL west (one of the weakest, if not the weakest offensive division in MLB), then what's his era going to be in a tough offensive division like the AL East.

Lindstrom, I guess is an okay throw in, but IMO he's over paid and we have much bigger issues than the bullpen.

If this is the best we can do, then I'd have much rather kept Guthrie to see if there are better offers at the trade deadline or worst case scenario take the draft pick.

So far DD has not been impressive other than making some organizational moves.

[Birds of B'more]

Lots of theories to reach the conclusion that the O's did this to save money, when they likely would have won the hearing anyway, and even if they lost, this didn't exactly save them a ton of money, not nearly as much as they could have in a Guthrie trade.

I think this trade should be evaluated on it's merits without the thought that the O's were somehow being cheap with this. And if they are saving money on it, great, that should be viewed as a positive.

Again, no one knows what would have happened in the arbitration hearing. And I never said that saving money was the only reason they did it. They also got value by paying 2 players slightly more or less than they would have paid Guthrie. Of course if you believe that DD wanted to get another RP before the trade anyway, then you have savings right there even if Guthrie had lost. As I said though, I think Guthrie's value to the Orioles went beyond his numbers. Going into the season he was the only SP you could count on to give you 200 innings and a 4-ish ERA. The rest were just a big pile of question marks....a pile that just got even bigger.

In reference to your last paragraph, I agree we always have to let things play out before passing final judgement. But as is the custom here, doesn't mean we can't debate the merits of the trade before then, as well as what the motive may have been.

[olehippi]

I give it a D only because we got two players for one. But basically, I think the trade makes ZERO sense.

[cindyluvsbrady]

You will like Jason Hamel. He is a nice fellow.

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Jeremy was our Ace, but he was not an Ace.

Weams.......You will have a hard time .....getting me to accept this one!!!!

[weams]

I know, but you will like him.

Weams.......You will have a hard time .....getting me to accept this one!!!!

You'll like Lindstrom better than Accardo as well.

[mweb]

Again' date=' no one knows what would have happened in the arbitration hearing. And I never said that saving money was the [b']only[/b] reason they did it. They also got value by paying 2 players slightly more or less than they would have paid Guthrie. Of course if you believe that DD wanted to get another RP before the trade anyway, then you have savings right there even if Guthrie had lost. As I said though, I think Guthrie's value to the Orioles went beyond his numbers. Going into the season he was the only SP you could count on to give you 200 innings and a 4-ish ERA. The rest were just a big pile of question marks....a pile that just got even bigger.

In reference to your last paragraph, I agree we always have to let things play out before passing final judgement. But as is the custom here, doesn't mean we can't debate the merits of the trade before then, as well as what the motive may have been.

I would prefer to debate more logical motives.

[crowmst3k!]

C. average run-of-the-mill trade, trading starters with similar upside and gaining a reliever.

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