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Sun:Grimsley names 3 O's in banned drug case

TWpj

By TWpj
in Orioles Talk

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SilentJames Hangout Veteran Council

SilentJames

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With that example I was simply referring to the guys who have been caught to date and given lame excuses, not to the players mentioned by Grimsley.

Tejada has been mentioned supposedly by Canseco, Raffy, and now Grimsley.

I am sure it is just a coincidence. :rolleyes:

As far as Gibbons and Roberts- of course NOT, I am sure they have NEVER touched the stuff. After all, they are ORIOLES. :rolleyes:

Pettitte and Clemens- isn't there a connection with Grimsley (a trainer ?) ? I am sure that is just a coincidence too.

The only players to ever use steroids in MLB history are McGwire, Caminiti, and Segui. :rolleyes: And Bonds, but only accidentily. He was "tricked" by his evil trainer. Barry thought it was flaxseed oil that he was rubbing into his skin on a regular basis.

Dude you want to be bitter and condescending fine. Maybe these guys have done stuff, but maybe they haven't. There is no other evidence and in America you're innocent until proven guilty.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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You have no idea what evidence they have.

There could be a paper trail of shipments from a supplier (Balco ?), dealers, personal trainers, witnesses, etc....

Who knows ?

We would have heard about it since June. But your right. Who knows? I think that's the point.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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Dude you want to be bitter and condescending fine. Maybe these guys have done stuff, but maybe they haven't. There is no other evidence and in America you're innocent until proven guilty.

This is true, but he does bring up a good point.

Look, I laughed at Canseco, too. I thought he was full of crap...turns out, maybe he wasn't.

Grimsley? Crappy journeyman pitcher...blah, no credibility there, right? Well, Segui isn't making it hard to say the affadavit isn't credible. I keep saying this and no one acknowledges it.

Yeah, SJ, you are innocent until proven guilty, but theres a reason to be suspicious. And honestly, those reasons are a lot more believable than believing the players saying they're clean. Where have we heard that before?

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SilentJames Hangout Veteran Council

SilentJames

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True, you were.

I'm not going to bail, but I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt just because they play for my favorite team.

I hope they're not guilty, I hope this affadavit means nothing, but I can't ignore the implications. Especially when Grimsley named Segui and Segui came out and said its true. If Grimsley is right about one of the names he has in there...that doesn't make me feel more confident.

All I'll say is if they are found guilty, I won't be surprised. That goes for EVERYONE in MLB. I think it's that bad and I think this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I won't be surprised, but notice im not saying anything about Clemens or Pettite either, thos guys have given me no reason not to believe them either. I don't even really like Clemens, but he should be treates like everyone else. If they want to do anything about these guys, investigate them, go deep. If it is found that they have done steroids, or not, deal with it then with appropriate action.

But don't just throw their names out and have no other investigation. I mean these names have been with the feds for almost the entire year and there has been no investigation of these guys other than perhaps a cursory look, that we know about.

Let there be a serious investigation of all 5 guys. Until then this is just an unsubstansiated claim.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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I won't be surprised, but notice im not saying anything about Clemens or Pettite either, thos guys have given me no reason not to believe them either. I don't even really like Clemens, but he should be treates like everyone else. If they want to do anything about these guys, investigate them, go deep. If it is found that they have done steroids, or not, deal with it then with appropriate action.

But don't just throw their names out and have no other investigation. I mean these names have been with the feds for almost the entire year and there has been no investigation of these guys other than perhaps a cursory look, that we know about.

Let there be a serious investigation of all 5 guys. Until then this is just an unsubstansiated claim.

I don't know about the process, but I'm imagining it's going to take awhile for this thing to get started. I'm sure they also were waiting for the offseason so the players couldn't hide behind their schedule.

This is going to take a looooooooooong time....

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SilentJames Hangout Veteran Council

SilentJames

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I don't know about the process, but I'm imagining it's going to take awhile for this thing to get started. I'm sure they also were waiting for the offseason so the players couldn't hide behind their schedule.

This is going to take a looooooooooong time....

The season didn't stop them for going after Grimsely or their continuing investigation of Bonds.

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66-70-83-?? Major Leaguer

66-70-83-??

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Not any more.:mad:

Of course you are innocent until proven guilty....in a court of law.

But, not in the court of public opinion.

The chickens are coming home to roost.

MLBPA refused to bargain on this issue (Testing) initially and later rebuffed real meaningful testing. They hid behind a phony "privacy" issue.

Only when public pressure mounted to the point that their credibility was at stake, Congress inquired, and some of his own union finally said enough- did Fehr relent and agree to stricter testing.

They could have nipped this in the bud years ago.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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This is true, but he does bring up a good point.

Look, I laughed at Canseco, too. I thought he was full of crap...turns out, maybe he wasn't.

Grimsley? Crappy journeyman pitcher...blah, no credibility there, right? Well, Segui isn't making it hard to say the affadavit isn't credible. I keep saying this and no one acknowledges it.

Yeah, SJ, you are innocent until proven guilty, but theres a reason to be suspicious. And honestly, those reasons are a lot more believable than believing the players saying they're clean. Where have we heard that before?

"There's another way to phrase that and that is that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It is basically saying the same thing in a different way. Simply because you do not have evidence that something does exist does not mean that you have evidence that it doesn't exist."

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nadecir Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

nadecir

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...in America you're innocent until proven guilty.
Only in a court of law. It doesn't mean these guys didn't do it. Even if a court found them innocent, it doesn't mean they didn't do it. (a good example is the OJ case)

The Grimsley trade was sure a bad idea, wasn't it?

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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The season didn't stop them for going after Grimsely or their continuing investigation of Bonds.

He said a lot of reporters have known about this for months. You don't think they looked into it to try to get some juicey dirt. They've had since June and haven't come up with anything.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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The season didn't stop them for going after Grimsely or their continuing investigation of Bonds.

Good point.

However, Grimsley was busted by the Feds on his shipment of illegal stuff and Bonds is being investigated by the IRS for tax evasion which seems to be a totally different beast. The Bonds investigation for roids has cooled this season...at least, nothing has been made publicly known.

It's gonna get really thick this offseason, just wait.

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ejf1025 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

ejf1025

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Of course you are innocent until proven guilty....in a court of law.

But, not in the court of public opinion.

The chickens are coming home to roost.

MLBPA refused to bargain on this issue (Testing) initially and later rebuffed real meaningful testing. They hid behind a phony "privacy" issue.

Only when public pressure mounted to the point that their credibility was at stake, Congress inquired, and some of his own union finally said enough- did Fehr relent and agree to stricter testing.

They could have nipped this in the bud years ago.

Hey! Quit jacking my cliche...

Only one Malcolm X impersonation per day ;)

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2632 AAA

2632

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I just wish I had it in me to proudly defend these guys and wholeheartedly say that I think Grimsely is lying. Good LORD, do I hope they are innocent but... I just don't know. It's very painful to all of a sudden go from being so proud to have these guys represent me and my city and my team to not being able to honestly say I am sure they didn't cheat. 24 hrs before this story broke, I was a one-woman Orioles cheering section in Fenway Park. Proudly wearing a Roberts jersey and celebrating Miggy's new hits record...

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