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Mazzone: Then I went to Baltimore....

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By Fan4Life
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CA-ORIOLE Hangout Grand Counsel

CA-ORIOLE

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While I'm sure his comments have merit I'd wager that a lot of this is sour grapes over Perlozzo's (rightful) ouster.

Maybe, but Mazzone was a pretty distinguished pitching coach and voiced plenty of concerns about the Orioles developmental process.

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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I was down in corporate box seats about ten rows back behind home plate one night late in Sam's reign. He had a large contingent in the seats nearby was constantly distracted by them and in the midst of a horrible run with horrible play. He seemed to be holding court and having the time of his life. I was glad to have someone who took the losses as if they meant something. Trembley helped change the culture of the Orioles.

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jcarm Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

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So what? Is he supposed to turn off his human trait?

The O's get criticized because they deserve it. Truth be told, we have to hope Buck and DD are strong enough to fix things because the people before them certainly weren't, and the stench of this ownership still floats down the organization every single day. If people don't think that's a fact, you live in a dream world. It's the omnipresent higher bar the O's always have to jump if they want to succeed, and that didn't go away just because we're finally having a good year.

I was merely pointing out that Mazzone does still criticize the current Orioles-not only the Orioles of the past. When I listen to him-it seems that his judgement has been permanently scarred. I believe that he will still criticize the Orioles even if they win a World Series, but I could be wrong about this. Hopefully we all get to find out!

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Truth hurts. I wish it had been said many years ago. Maybe it wouldn't have taken so long for things to (hopefully) change.

It was said years ago. Mazzone goes off on these rants about the O's fairly often.

Someone should have told him the Umps were not going to call pitches 3 inches off the plate strikes against the Sox and Yanks.

He just needs to get on with his life already.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

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I hear what you are saying-but I do have to say that Mazone does still criticize the current Orioles on the local sportstalk radio station in Atlanta. I do not think that he believes that anything has truly changed.

I think Angelos and the organization in general deserves all the criticism they get. I do not believe that Angelos, his sons, and his cronies have fundamentally changed. I think they respect and like Buck and I think Buck is clearly in charge of the clubhouse and the field. But it will be interesting to see if they let DD make big changes in the offseason. Surely DD would like to sign some high end players, but who knows if he will be allowed to sign significant free agents or make significant trades. So far DD has done a good job and certainly has made many moves, but they have all been small. The team still has glaring wholes that need to be fixed. Until the Angelos regime allows a GM to fully shape a roster, then I will continue to believe that they haven't really changed and I won't be surprised when they screw things up in the future. There's way too much data/history to cut them slack anytime soon.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

Ohfan67

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It was said years ago. Mazzone goes off on these rants about the O's fairly often.

Someone should have told him the Umps were not going to call pitches 3 inches off the plate strikes against the Sox and Yanks.

He just needs to get on with his life already.

His current job is to talk about baseball through his experiences. He worked for arguably the best organization and the worst organization in baseball and what a contrast that provided. We should tell Jim Palmer to get on with his life already the next time he talks about his days as an Oriole. Geez. Mazzone never did anything to hurt the Orioles. I don't understand why you guys are so hostile to him.

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jcarm Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

jcarm

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I think Angelos and the organization in general deserves all the criticism they get. I do not believe that Angelos, his sons, and his cronies have fundamentally changed. I think they respect and like Buck and I think Buck is clearly in charge of the clubhouse and the field. But it will be interesting to see if they let DD make big changes in the offseason. Surely DD would like to sign some high end players, but who knows if he will be allowed to sign significant free agents or make significant trades. So far DD has done a good job and certainly has made many moves, but they have all been small. The team still has glaring wholes that need to be fixed. Until the Angelos regime allows a GM to fully shape a roster, then I will continue to believe that they haven't really changed and I won't be surprised when they screw things up in the future. There's way too much data/history to cut them slack anytime soon.

Well said!

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Leo is a current radio talk show host in Atlanta. Mike and Mike brought him on to talk about Steven Strausburg's innings limit but asked him about the situation in Boston first.

Here's a transcription of the beginning part of that conversation:

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"It all starts at the top, it's called the chain of command. And with the chain of command I got to expirence both ends of it. When I was with the Atlanta Braves there was a chain of command that was in place, that was never broken. It was never broken by the players. It started with ownership, with Ted Turner, then it started with the general manager, with John Schuerholz, then Manager Bobby Cox, then the coaching staff and the players. So you had a chain of command that was never broken.

Then I go to Baltimore and find out why they're losing. The chain of command was always broken... where players got to voice their displeasure to the front office which took away the power of the manager and nobody really knew who was running what. Basically what it was, was a bunch of players finding excuses for losing. So this is what's going on."

*Golic chimes in with some babble and a question ending with "doesn't the onus fall on the players to just get the job done?"*

"Absolutely they do. We had situations in Atlanta where if you didn't act a certain way or play a certain way you were gone... or you were told 'this is the way it's going to be'. Then when I went to another organization, it was, 'oh why are we doing this?' and questioning everything, and 'how come we're doing this and how come we're doing that?'

So they bring in Bobby Valentine to change the atmosphere there. And I know Bobby, I've known him a long time, and he's very... he's different, ok *laughing*. But you know what, he's one of the brightest individuals I've ever been around, one of the smartest guys I've ever been around. And I think he knows exactly what he's doing. And I think back on it, I remember what Pedroia said that one time, he said "We don't do things this way around here." Oh we don't, huh?! Well you're not winning, you're not doing this and you're not doing that... I think it goes back to what's going on in the clubhouse and I do put it on the players, and I do think there are certain ways to handle it and certain approaches to take. You have to be in the clubhouse to really experience it... but... it all starts at the top."

*Greeny then turns the discussion to Strausburg.*

He is right... but this is why I am enjoying the (hoped for) transformation. DD/Buck are not afraid to option, DFA, send to BP, etc. anyone that does not perform. IIRC Sam was one in a long line of (IMO) too much leverage to "veteranocity."

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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I don't have a problem with Mazzone expressing his opinion of what was wrong with the organization in 2006 and 2007. Sam Perlozzo was fired just as Andy MacPhail was hired, and Mazzone was let go at the end of that season. So, Mazzone knows very little about how things were run under MacPhail, much less how they are being run under Duquette. I have little doubt that Perlozzo didn't have the respect and authority that Showalter has.

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Fan4Life Hangout Veteran Council

Fan4Life

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I hear what you are saying-but I do have to say that Mazone does still criticize the current Orioles on the local sportstalk radio station in Atlanta. I do not think that he believes that anything has truly changed.

Didn't we take 2 out 3 from them? :)

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Fan4Life Hangout Veteran Council

Fan4Life

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I don't have a problem with Mazzone expressing his opinion of what was wrong with the organization in 2006 and 2007. Sam Perlozzo was fired just as Andy MacPhail was hired, and Mazzone was let go at the end of that season. So, Mazzone knows very little about how things were run under MacPhail, much less how they are being run under Duquette. I have little doubt that Perlozzo didn't have the respect and authority that Showalter has.

Did you hear him this morning? Just curious. I don't think anyone faults him for his opinion, but hearing how it was expressed this morning was quite strange.

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