A question about the "no passing the runner" rule

[SrMeowMeow]

Okay, so, uh, RZNJ? There's nothing wrong with actually trying to figure out whether the call was accurate or how the rules are supposed to work. You're running a little hot.

[LarryHarlow]

Not trying to be a smart aleck but when determining the winner of a horse race or sprint, you look across the finish line not from out in front of the racers. Since the start line is 1B and the finish line is 2B in this case, the best angle is from HP or along the 3B line about 10 feet. The 1B ump did not have a good angle nor did he take more than a millisecond glance.

Everthing Maddon said is correct and he's a class act. TERRIBLE call by that ump and it will be show to be that way. I'm confident in that and I'm as big an O's fan as there is.

Not a terrible call. It was too close for it to be terrible either way. I'm pretty sure Longoria passed him about 15 feet before second base, before slowing up. That is, if you were to draw lines perpendicular to the line between 1st and 2nd base that go through each player, the line that went through Longoria was closer to second than the line through Zobrist about 15 feet before second.

[incubus]

The analogy was clearly lost on you. It's about the angle and being in the right place to make the call. The 1B umpire was clearly not in the best spot to interpret if Longoria had passed Zobrist. He made the call and you can't fight City Hall. Do you really think you'd be making the same arguments if it was Jones instead of Longoria and Markakis instead of Zobrist?

Truth of the matter is, it's on Longoria. Don't make it so close that the call could be made. From every angle I have seen it looks like their bodies are overlapping at least some. Somone else above made the comment that a fielder shouldn't have to guess which guy is the lead runner in a play. If its at that point then, I think it's safe to say that the trailing runner should be called out no matter what uniform they wear. Palmer was right, Longoria should've had his hands out to keep himself behind the lead runner.

It's fundament baseball, stuff you learn at 8 or 9 years old in little league.

[elextrano8]

Yeah, it was lost on you. The point was about what was the best angle. You then said it's baseball, not horse racing. Stop saying stupid stuff and there won't be need for an insulting tone.

It wasn't lost on me, because I disagree that the best vantage point to view the "finish line" is from 45 degrees at over 120 feet, as opposed to being parallel to the runners. And thanks.

[BobbyWoontz]

I really want to see the TB feeds of this play. All of the MASN shots were inconclusive, but I thought that at one point as he was approaching second, Longoria recognized the situation and visibly reacted by slowing up. The other thing I was able to gather from the MASN shots was that, imho, the umpire who made the call had a near ideal angle to judge that particular call.

They need to check the DomeCam.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

To me, in these images, the ump appears to be pretty close to perpendicular to Longoria and Zobrist. At least close enough to assume he had the best vantage point to make the call.

[elextrano8]

And I think that right there is the 1B umpire in the process of making finishing his call. It *appears* he may have even been better positioned than I had thought initially.

[Frobby]

If he's not sure if he passed the runner and he didn't then the call could be really bad. Do you think you'd be saying the same thing if that call was O's runners on the bases and it went against us. IMO, it doesn't matter if he was close to passing the runner or even. It was a big call at a big moment and you (the ump) should not make that call unless you are sure. Can't anyone here see the replace and see what a bad angle and what a quick look the 1B ump took. Am I the only rational objective person here????????

I saw a replay on ESPN and actually thought the ump had a better angle than any of the TV cameras did. I trust his judgment as to whether Longoria was further from the 1B line than Zobrist was. I still think it's debatable whether Longoria should have been called out if Zobrist was closer to 2B. But I'll take it.

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

The only problem is that Longoria isn't even close to Zobrist in these replacs. IF he passed him it was when he rounded 1B and the ump was already moving towards 2B and had his back to the play, glanced over his shoulder for a split second. He's only perpendicular to the play aftter the important part happened.

Except you're seeing this play from a camera mounted on the left side of center field. It's really an impossible angle to judge, but seeing the ump standing right there was enough for me to assume he got the call right... that and being an O's fan.

[Frobby]

Not one of you guys has answered my question which I've asked multiple times. If it were Oriole runners, you wouldn't be CRYING TERRIBLE CALL?????

I'd be mad at the ump but I'd be madder at the batter for making it a debatable call.

[SrMeowMeow]

Not one of you guys has answered my question which I've asked multiple times. If it were Oriole runners, you wouldn't be CRYING TERRIBLE CALL?????

To be honest, I didn't even know this was a rule.

[btownoriole]

I saw a replay on ESPN and actually thought the ump had a better angle than any of the TV cameras did. I trust his judgment as to whether Longoria was further from the 1B line than Zobrist was. I still think it's debatable whether Longoria should have been called out if Zobrist was closer to 2B. But I'll take it.

From a logic standpoint, the rule has to be based on how far they are from the first base line and not how close they are to second. Otherwise a runner could intentionally take a right turn if they see they are going to pass a runner.

The replays are terrible. They're like seats I've had in the lower deck at M&T Bank Stadium. I can never tell how many yards a runner makes because there is no depth perception. I kept waiting for the rooftop camera angle but it never came. Even a camera from the press box would've provided a better angle.

[elextrano8]

Not one of you guys has answered my question which I've asked multiple times. If it were Oriole runners, you wouldn't be CRYING TERRIBLE CALL?????

That really doesn't have any bearing on the argument. I will freely admit that I am often irrational in my Orioles fandom, but this isn't a "being a homer" situation. As near as I can tell, no one (aside from the umpire) has indicated that they were certain that the call was correct.

[El Gordo]

I don't believe Longoria actually passed Zobrist, but if the ump was in that position shown in the photo and looking back towards first base, there was a point where they were neck and neck, and from his angle it would have appeared Longoria was ahead.

[TonySoprano]

It was a bad call, but I'll take it, especially after all the years a call like that would go against us.