Should Tillman be considered an ace?

[Redskins Rick]

Everybody is on the list. You can cast your ballot for any AL pitcher.

I dont believe you are correct.

I went back to last year, and there was 3 finalists on the list for both leagues.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/cliff_corcoran/11/13/cy-young-award-preview-verlander-dickey/index.html

[mark_beckens]

Everybody is on the list. You can cast your ballot for any AL pitcher.

WRONG! Being eligible for the list and being a candidate for the list are not the same thing. Being eligible means you are a pitcher in the AL. Being a candidate means you have actually pitched well enough to be considered for the award.

[calmunderfire]

WRONG! Being eligible for the list and being a candidate for the list are not the same thing. Being eligible means you are a pitcher in the AL. Being a candidate means you have actually pitched well enough to be considered for the award.

Considered means viable option to win. If considered=candidate then Chris Tillman is not a candidate because he is not a viable option to win the award.

[Redskins Rick]

Considered means viable option to win. If considered=candidate then Chris Tillman is not a candidate because he is not a viable option to win the award.

Now you are playing semantics with words.

[mark_beckens]

Considered means viable option to win. If considered=candidate then Chris Tillman is not a candidate because he is not a viable option to win the award.

If he gets votes that means you are wrong!

There have been years/pitchers who have had such amazing seasons that they have run away with the CY award. Does that mean no one else pitched well enough to be considered for the award or got votes? Last I knew they don't vote just for the winner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cy_Young_Award

• ^A The formula is: <tt>Score = 7F + 4S + 3T + 2FO + 1 FI</tt>, where F is the number of first place votes, S is second place votes, T is third place votes, FO is fourth place votes and FI is fifth place votes.^[1]

[Redskins Rick]

If he gets votes that means you are wrong!

Nah, he have an excuse for that too.

[mark_beckens]

Nah, he have an excuse for that too.

Bites tongue not to get banned!

[CA-ORIOLE]

Now you are playing semantics with words.

Is there another way to play semantics?

[Frobby]

This discussion is totally imprecise. There are 30 voters, and they each vote for their top 5 for the Cy Young award. I very much doubt Tillman gets a single first, second or third place vote. My guess is he'll get a few fourth or fifth place votes. Does that mean he's "in the conversation" about the Cy Young, or not?

The second point is, I doubt anyone who omits Tillman from their ballot will be basing that decision on his FIP. The fact that he's 19th in standard ERA is reason enough to omit him. If he were in the top 10, he'd get more votes.

[CA-ORIOLE]

This discussion is totally imprecise. There are 30 voters, and they each vote for their top 5 for the Cy Young award. I very much doubt Tillman gets a single first, second or third place vote. My guess is he'll get a few fourth or fifth place votes. Does that mean he's "in the conversation" about the Cy Young, or not?

The second point is, I doubt anyone who omits Tillman from their ballot will be basing that decision on his FIP. The fact that he's 19th in standard ERA is reason enough to omit him. If he were in the top 10, he'd get more votes.

How do you know that none of the voters will consider his FIP/peripherals and yet think he'll get "some" votes. You have no idea?

[calmunderfire]

How do you know that none of the voters will consider his FIP/peripherals and yet think he'll get "some" votes. You have no idea?

Keith Law (a voter) says he pays attention to FIP/peripherals very much so. He literally gave Tim Lincecum the 2009 Cy Young award over Carpenter and Wainwright by focusing on peripherals. He selected Javier Vazquez as his Cy Young runner up due to his strikeout total basically. Had he not done that a Cardinal takes the 2009 NL Cy Young.

[Frobby]

How do you know that none of the voters will consider his FIP/peripherals and yet think he'll get "some" votes. You have no idea?

Keith Law (a voter) says he pays attention to FIP/peripherals very much so. He literally gave Tim Lincecum the 2009 Cy Young award over Carpenter and Wainwright by focusing on peripherals. He selected Javier Vazquez as his Cy Young runner up due to his strikeout total basically. Had he not done that a Cardinal takes the 2009 NL Cy Young.

I am not sure Law is currently a Cy Young voter. He wasn't last year .

That said, let me make myself clear. I am not saying that there are no voters who give any consideration to peripheral stats. I am saying that I doubt Tillman's going to lose votes because he has a FIP higher than his ERA. His ERA is high enough by itself that most voters won't list him, and any voters who would be inclined to vote for him in their top 5 despite being 19th in ERA are probably the type of voter who gives credence to W-L as an important factor in their decision.

That's the last I'm going to say, but I have a question for you two: Assume Tillman wins two more games and his ERA stays about where it is. Do you believe none of the thirty voters will list him in their top 5?

[Il BuonO]

That's the last I'm going to say, but I have a question: Assume Tillman wins two more games and his ERA stays about where it is. Do you believe none of the thirty voters will list him in their top 5?

I think he has to lower his ERA, the wins won't matter. And he might just do that, but not enough to make a significant impact in the mind of any voter.

[Frobby]

I think he has to lower his ERA, the wins won't matter. And he might just do that, but not enough to make a significant impact in the mind of any voter.

Oh, I think the wins still matter to some of the voters. Tillman is currently 2nd in the league in wins and also has a great winning percentage. He's got a much better chance at some 4th or 5th place votes if he finishes 2nd in wins than if he doesn't, IMO.