Should Tillman be considered an ace?

[calmunderfire]

For Christ sake somebody won a Cy Young with a 13-12 record. Clearly, there is something going on here when it comes to new school analysis. People care about this stuff.

[Frobby]

The way you say 19, its like a bad thing.

19th out of a possible 200+ possible starters

19th out of a hypothetical 75 AL starters (15 teams, 5 per team). It's hard to call him an "ace" when there are more pitchers ahead of him than there are teams in the league. Detroit has three pitchers with a better ERA than Tillman. Texas, Oakland, Kansas City, Seattle and Cleveland each have two. The only AL teams who don't have a starter with a lower ERA than Tillman are Toronto, Minnesota and Houston, and we all know what those teams have in common.

That said, Tillman is coming on strong. He has a 3.19 ERA in the second half and is averaging 6.77 innings per start.

[Frobby]

For Christ sake somebody won a Cy Young with a 13-12 record. Clearly, there is something going on here when it comes to new school analysis. People care about this stuff.

Not a very good example for you, since Hernandez had a 2.27 ERA that year and a 3.04 FIP. Liriano and Verlander both had a lower FIP than Hernandez, yet they finished tied for 11th in the Cy Young voting.

[CA-ORIOLE]

For Christ sake somebody won a Cy Young with a 13-12 record. Clearly, there is something going on here when it comes to new school analysis. People care about this stuff.

Yep. rightly or wrongly, Tillman's fat FIP is going to stick out to quite a few of the Cy Young voters. Heck, I routinely see him dismissed as not being an ACE type on MLB Network by some of the dumb analysts. Which is kind of surprising to me actually.

[calmunderfire]

Not a very good example for you, since Hernandez had a 2.27 ERA that year and a 3.04 FIP. Liriano and Verlander both had a lower FIP than Hernandez, yet they finished tied for 11th in the Cy Young voting.

My whole premise was based on the face that Chris Tillman, owner of a 4.51 FIP will not win an award with a FIP that high.

[Redskins Rick]

For Christ sake somebody won a Cy Young with a 13-12 record. Clearly, there is something going on here when it comes to new school analysis. People care about this stuff.

So let's go back 100 years, reset all the record books and make them correct.

[Redskins Rick]

My whole premise was based on the face that Chris Tillman, owner of a 4.51 FIP will not win an award with a FIP that high.

The problem with your post. NOBODY said he would win. Repeatedly we said that. But, you keep ignoring it.

It was mentioned that he was just a candidate and maybe get a vote, most likely not.

But, its an honor to just be a candidate.

[mark_beckens]

19th out of a hypothetical 75 AL starters (15 teams, 5 per team). It's hard to call him an "ace" when there are more pitchers ahead of him than there are teams in the league. Detroit has three pitchers with a better ERA than Tillman. Texas, Oakland, Kansas City, Seattle and Cleveland each have two. The only AL teams who don't have a starter with a lower ERA than Tillman are Toronto, Minnesota and Houston, and we all know what those teams have in common.

That said, Tillman is coming on strong. He has a 3.19 ERA in the second half and is averaging 6.77 innings per start.

Tillman pitching at Camden Yards and in the AL East raises his ERA. He has given up 29 HR's this season, 22 at home.

Do you think his ERA would be lower if he pitched in Oakland, Seattle, Kansas City?

[mark_beckens]

NOBODY said he would win.

Yeap, noone has said he would win, just that he will be considered and get a vote or two.

[calmunderfire]

The problem with your post. NOBODY said he would win. Repeatedly we said that. But, you keep ignoring it.

It was mentioned that he was just a candidate and maybe get a vote, most likely not.

But, its an honor to just be a candidate.

Everybody is a candidate by your logic because all pitchers are eligible to receive consideration. So what does saying he's a candidate mean as it pertains to Tillman?

[mark_beckens]

Everybody is a candidate by your logic because all pitchers are eligible to receive consideration. So what does saying he's a candidate mean as it pertains to Tillman?

Just admit you are wrong. Tillman will be in the conversation for CY. He won't win but he will get votes. That is all anyone has been saying.

[calmunderfire]

Just admit you are wrong. Tillman will be in the conversation for CY. He won't win but he will get votes. That is all anyone has been saying.

Really he's going to be in the conversation? When the season is over will there be articles written by mainstream media supports Tillman for Cy? Everybody is a candidate by the logic shared by some in this thread, as long as you are an AL pitcher that is.

[Redskins Rick]

Not me, what I said was, one of the Cy Young reporters that vote on such was on ESPN or the FAN, and I was listening.

They said that Tillman would be one of those on the Cy Young list, based on his record, which at the time was 2nd in the AL behind Max.

He didnt say he would win, he said, it wouldn't surprise him, if he got a vote or two.

He said Max was the leading candidate to win, but it would not surprise him if Felix won it again.

[mark_beckens]

Really he's going to be in the conversation? When the season is over will there be articles written by mainstream media supports Tillman for Cy? Everybody is a candidate by the logic shared by some in this thread, as long as you are an AL pitcher that is.

He will be in the list of candidates for the award. NOT ALL SP's will be on that list. Why is this so hard for you to understand.

[calmunderfire]

He will be in the list of candidates for the award. NOT ALL SP's will be on that list. Why is this so hard for you to understand.

Everybody is on the list. You can cast your ballot for any AL pitcher.