It seems at least likely that Wieters gets traded.

[Rick_Schu]

I don't know. I think he is betting on himself. Similar to what Flacco did. I think he probably thinks he is better than he has shown in years past. I can't imagine he is going to sign an extension this offseason after the year he had. All it will take is for him to have a huge year this year and he will probably get what he wants from somebody (well maybe not Mauer money) but more than he would get this offseason for sure. I think I am fine with letting him play out the year and seeing where he is next offseason. I just don't see the point in trading him this off-season unless they are overwhelmed.

Yeah, I agree. All sides know his value is low right now, I don't blame Matt or his agent for not wanting to sign an extension now. I don't know why the O's would want to trade him while his value is low either. He's got a slow swing, but he's the best catcher we've had in a long long time. He brings toughness to the team. Those plays at the plate he makes are a huge, and have got to inspire teammates to give it all.

[TiredofLosing20]

Although I agree with your theory, I see NOTHING in Weiters to make me believe a career year is upon us. His numbers have been eerily similar. His swing from the left side is so long that without adjustments, will never allow him to hit for a solid average.

Trade Weiters now. The extra year is worth more to us on the trade market then would be a solid year from him.

Even if he just rebounds to his 2011 & 2012 years (somewhere around .760 OPS & .330 OBP), it would greatly increase his value. He will more than make up for the contract value lost. Selling this offseason simply seems illogical to me unless you are overwhelmed. I think there is a higher likelihood that he will rebound versus stay the same. Apparently, you disagree.

[Can_of_corn]

Until Joseph or Ohlman are ready:

Pierzynski

Suzuki

Navarro

Snyder

Clevenger

Or someone from the trade of Weiters.

As I previously stated, a backup catcher can hit close to as well. So, grab a good solid defensive catcher and use Clevenger now and then. He can hit, he is a career .325 hitter in the minors.

Joseph?

You are kidding right?

I couldn't even get to the rest of your list.

Joseph?

Just spent the last FOUR seasons in AA Joseph?

The guy playing first base for Los Bravos de Margarita?

That guy?

[atomic]

Even if he just rebounds to his 2011 & 2012 years (somewhere around .760 OPS & .330 OBP), it would greatly increase his value. He will more than make up for the contract value lost. Selling this offseason simply seems illogical to me unless you are overwhelmed. I think there is a higher likelihood that he will rebound versus stay the same. Apparently, you disagree.

Well there is also a chance that he will get worse. Some other team might think he will revert to his 2011 and 2012 seasons and will pay that price in value in trade. Unless you know what the offers are there is no way to say it is illogical to trade him. Another thing is if you don't trade him you still have to pay him a huge salary. So if he plays like he did in 2013 next year you miss out on getting a player that could help the team.

[weams]

Joseph?

You are kidding right?

I couldn't even get to the rest of your list.

Joseph?

Just spent the last FOUR seasons in AA Joseph?

The guy playing first base for Los Bravos de Margarita?

That guy?

Caleb could be non tendered as well. He will have to be added to the 40 man roster by tomorrow if we are keeping him. Or we could sign him as a six year free agent.

[Can_of_corn]

Caleb could be non tendered as well. He will have to be added to the 40 man roster by tomorrow if we are keeping him. Or we could sign him as a six year free agent.

No offense to Caleb but his best chance to stop onto a MLB field in a baseball uniform is as a coach.

[weams]

No offense to Caleb but his best chance to stop onto a MLB field in a baseball uniform is as a coach.

He is not doing so well in Venezuela either.

[TiredofLosing20]

Well there is also a chance that he will get worse. Some other team might think he will revert to his 2011 and 2012 seasons and will pay that price in value in trade. Unless you know what the offers are there is no way to say it is illogical to trade him. Another thing is if you don't trade him you still have to pay him a huge salary. So if he plays like he did in 2013 next year you miss out on getting a player that could help the team.

Of course he could get worse. He could also have a career year. I suppose it depends on what you think has a higher chance of happening. I tend to believe he is likely to rebound to his 2011/2012 level. I am willing to take that risk. You are right, we don't know what offers are out there. If someone is willing to pay 2011/2012 prices, I would entertain that. I doubt that is happening but it could be. I can't see where his salary is going to be huge depending on your definition of huge.

[twinedenter]

Even if he just rebounds to his 2011 & 2012 years (somewhere around .760 OPS & .330 OBP), it would greatly increase his value. He will more than make up for the contract value lost. Selling this offseason simply seems illogical to me unless you are overwhelmed. I think there is a higher likelihood that he will rebound versus stay the same. Apparently, you disagree.

Nope I don't disagree that he will rebound to .750 OPS. But;

1) that doesn't make him worth 15 mil per and to think he wants 20.....

2) the second year gives a team a chance to try and extend him, maybe he will like it where ever we send him

[twinedenter]

I don't disagree with you about his defense. Its more the financial angle and his offensive inadequacies.

[TiredofLosing20]

Nope I don't disagree that he will rebound to .750 OPS. But;

1) that doesn't make him worth 15 mil per and to think he wants 20.....

2) the second year gives a team a chance to try and extend him, maybe he will like it where ever we send him

The good news is that 2014 isn't going to cost $15mm. The point is that he won't be expensive in 2014 and there is an opportunity for him to build value if he just gets back to the level I think he is as I suspect he will. I get that there is value lost in waiting until next offseason but I believe trading this year is selling low. I am willing to have another year with him and see where he is. Again, if they are overwhelmed then by all means but I don't think that is going to happen.

[Spy Fox]

If you are looking at the pool of top 33 catchers (by PA) then you are eliminating the backup catchers.

My guess is that the dropoff from starting catcher to backup catcher is fairly substantial so even if Matt finishes at 20 out of 33 in OPS that doesn't mean his production is anywhere near as low as that of a backup catcher.

You are right, and this is why I said that twinedenter's statement was an exaggeration. However, before I looked up the data I would have expected Wieters to be in the top 10/top 15 of catchers in terms of offensive performance, but the actual data shows him as a below average offensive catcher the past few years (except for HRs).

Thank you Spy and I stand by my statement. The only difference in Weiters and a backup catcher is the number of at bats he gets.

Weiters hit .214 versus right hander's last year, that's over 3/4 of his at bats.

Anyone care to explain to me how that is NOT the hitting prowess of a backup catcher? Not even mentioning his paltry .287 OBP.

Here is a perfect Example: Erik Kratz, who is he? Erik is the backup catcher for the Phillies.

Erik in 2013: 197 at bats / 9 HR / BA .213. With 400ab's, Erik's numbers would look pretty similar to Weiters.

There is no way I would even attempt to resign him. Keep Davis and trade Weiters for pitching.

Despite his poor performance it is still pretty silly to compare Wieters directly to a backup catcher. It's easy to pull up an example of one of the more powerful backup catchers and point up that he might have hit about as many HRs as Matt, but the rest of Kratz' numbers are clearly worse than Wieters', as would pretty much any true backup you selected from around the league.

I don't think we would be trading Matt Wieters because we could find a better option at catcher. We would be trading Matt Wieters because if we can find an okay alternative at catcher it'd be good to add the valuable pieces Wieters could bring back.

[Can_of_corn]

You are right, and this is why I said that twinedenter's statement was an exaggeration. However, before I looked up the data I would have expected Wieters to be in the top 10/top 15 of catchers in terms of offensive performance, but the actual data shows him as a below average offensive catcher the past few years (except for HRs).

Despite his poor performance it is still pretty silly to compare Wieters directly to a backup catcher. It's easy to pull up an example of one of the more powerful backup catchers and point up that he might have hit about as many HRs as Matt, but the rest of Kratz' numbers are clearly worse than Wieters', as would pretty much any true backup you selected from around the league.

I don't think we would be trading Matt Wieters because we could find a better option at catcher. We would be trading Matt Wieters because if we can find an okay alternative at catcher it'd be good to add the valuable pieces Wieters could bring back.

And don't forget the savings they can spend on their bullpen.

[Dark Helmet]

Gausman to close in 2014? Maybe bring KRod back on a 1 year deal. Closer isn't going to matter if the plan is to semi rebuilt and not contend.

[weams]

if the plan is to semi rebuilt and not contend.

You do not spend 100 million on that.