Oriole players are upset WOW

[ledzepp8]

One thing I wish the O's would do is be more creative. Rays traded for Hanigan and immediately signed him to an extension. When have the O's ever done something like that?

It's not quite the same, but didn't they basically do that with JJ Hardy? I mean it wasn't directly after trading for him but it was in July.

[Redskins Rick]

You are testy today. As a fellow who probably falls into your category of apologists, I just want to make a few points.

1. I think Angelos has provided a budget in the neighborhood of $95 million to DD.

2. I don't think DD likes to spend to his full budget prior to the season (e.g., he wants to maintain some room to add in-season).

3. I think JJ is probably only worth about $4-5 million next year, if that.

4. I'm aware of the arbitration increases necessary to maintain this roster.

5. We have a structural payroll issue which bumps up against #1.

Because of #5 and #1, I think it was imperative for the O's to get rid of guys whose production can be replaced at a cheaper cost JUST TO MAINTAIN LAST YEAR'S ROSTER. Put another way, if we didn't drop JJ, I suspect we'd be more likely to rely on guys like Gausman in our OD rotation, and Pearce as our OD outfielder.

In that vein, I think the JJ move was good and necessary. My frustration with Angelos will remain very strong. I'd like $20 million more in payroll. With that said, I'm not crying over losing JJ at $10 million. That is an inefficient use of payroll regardless of your marketplace.

I buy the budget was 95 prior to this year, and there is 25+ more million to work with, and from the outside looking in, it looks like the budget is going to stay at 95 million.

[Fiver]

If the Orioles players really are upset WOW, then they are overreacting to this news, just like much of the OH is. Again, look at the calendar folks. It still says 12/3/13.

[Mayor McCheese]

There is a LONG way to go in the 2014 offseason, but that said, I didn't become an Orioles fan yesterday. I have seen the story before. That said, I'll reserve judgment until I see what DD has up his sleeve.

That said, if we go into next season without making improvements to this club, then why would the powers that be expect Davis and/or Wieters to even WANT TO resign long term with the Orioles????

I have defended Angelos for a long time, but if he handcuffs DD into not being able to improve this team and take the next step, then I will officially join in the pitchfork brigade. I guess the old saying is true....until Peter leaves, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

We didnt make improvements last offseason; and as of today we have not made any improvements to date.

We have gone from a contending team to a "competitive" team.

IMO the fans deserve a lot more than this BS....... I am spending $2900.00 of my money for a downgrade of 2012 and 2013.

[Redskins Rick]

We didnt make improvements last offseason; and as of today we have not made any improvements to date.

We have gone from a contending team to a "competitive" team.

IMO the fans deserve a lot more than this BS....... I am spending $2900.00 of my money for a downgrade of 2012 and 2013.

Dang, and they said I was Testy.

But, seriously, you are spot on.

[Redskins Rick]

I'm generally in your camp, but in fairness, we kept talking about the calendar all last offseason and then it was ST and the O's had done basically nothing except claim Casilla and sign McLouth. So, I can understand why some people aren't buying the "it's early" thing this time around.

They were starting to turn things around from the viewpoint, that FAs were no longer not wanting to come to Baltimore.

Now, if this do nothing trend continues, we will be right back in that boat.

[Fiver]

I'm generally in your camp, but in fairness, we kept talking about the calendar all last offseason and then it was ST and the O's had done basically nothing except claim Casilla and sign McLouth. So, I can understand why some people aren't buying the "it's early" thing this time around.

I do think a lot of this is paranoia left over from 15 consecutive losing seasons, and I admit to extreme caution in my own optimism in regards to the team. However, currently Duquette is 2 for 2 in regards to winning seasons under his watch. He deserves a LITTLE more faith than what we are seeing today. IF he is being severely restrained by PA (something both he and Buck have denied over and over again), then we should have a little faith that he'll get something done in spite of that. And not only that, but there is a track record of the club extending their own - I don't need to list the names, we all know them. So to say unequivocally that this money won't help AT LEAST to retain a guy like Davis, is disingenuous.

Do I think payroll should be a little higher? Yeah, from my seat I think $115-120M seems reasonable. And you know what? I'd still be for this trade even if that was the payroll, because it was the SMART thing to do - allocate whatever your resources are (whether it's $95Mill or $125 Mill) in places where you get the most value from them. Let's give Dan a chance to do that, and give him credit for realizing that a closer isn't the place to get that value. Isn't that what we want him to do? Make smart use of his resources? And now it's loud criticism for taking the first step to doing just that?

The same thing happens w/ the Ravens a lot of years too, and Ozzie has a LONG track record. People were panicking early in the offseason this year over all the losses, and Ozzie came through w/ several good pickups afterwards. Not apples to apples, but it's demonstrative of the overall mentality of sports fans in general (not just Baltimore, and certainly not just the OH).

[TradeAngelos]

There is a LONG way to go in the 2014 offseason, but that said, I didn't become an Orioles fan yesterday. I have seen the story before. That said, I'll reserve judgment until I see what DD has up his sleeve.

That said, if we go into next season without making improvements to this club, then why would the powers that be expect Davis and/or Wieters to even WANT TO resign long term with the Orioles????

I have defended Angelos for a long time, but if he handcuffs DD into not being able to improve this team and take the next step, then I will officially join in the pitchfork brigade. I guess the old saying is true....until Peter leaves, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Is $95 million hard line payroll max what you would consider taking the handcuffs off to improve this team? If not what is the number?

Because that looks to be where the cap is set at, and there are zero indications it is going much higher if it even hits that.

[scOtt]

I hope the organization knows that their honeymoon of winning baseball is over. It's time for them to step up this winter and use their resources for players.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me 37 times shame on me.

But I think PA might really step up this year. At least spend all his savings...

But then you all know how I spend most of my free time......

[MDK02]

If the O's players are upset the ownership not spending.. well welcome to the lives of Orioles fans every off season.

[Tx Oriole]

Because the off-season is over?

That is what I don't understand being pissed off on the third of December.

[sportsfan8703]

If the Orioles players really are upset WOW, then they are overreacting to this news, just like much of the OH is. Again, look at the calendar folks. It still says 12/3/13.

Exactly. It's not like we're done. The offseason hasn't even started yet. Wasn't it reported here that DD's first goal was to trade JJ. Then we had to make decisions on tendering deals. I really don't think Britton is going to be our 5th starter and Pearce/Riemold will start in LF. Is everyone going to freak out over every non tender or 6 year minor league FA we sign and point to it being a sign of being cheap? YES.

[SeaBird]

It's a team game.

Setup guys blowing leads, cost games.

Batters not hitting lefties and getting nohit for 6-7 innings, cost games.

Starters getting blown out early in some games, cost games.

Boston blew saves, Tampa blew saves, it happens.

Mariano Rivera blew a World Championship.

[crowmst3k!]

I buy the budget was 95 prior to this year, and there is 25+ more million to work with, and from the outside looking in, it looks like the budget is going to stay at 95 million.

Not to mention the recent Bloomberg report that the Orioles are in the top ten as far as franchise value.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/10/23/4947480/mlb-franchise-value-yankees-dodgers-red-sox

[Mayor McCheese]

I could say the same exact thing based on your point of view. That's why I said he ARGUABLY cost them the playoffs. At the very least, he was a major reason.

Not really.

We were 1 game out with like 10 games remaining.

In the second half of the season Johnson had 3 blown saves... all which were in a row...and we still went 1-2 in those 3 blown saves.

I think I would put more on the blame on the offense going dry for most of July and September.