Don't Look Now but Joseph Might be a Better a Catcher for the Orioles...

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think it is a great story and great for the team that he is playing well.

This is still a 28 year old rookie who spent parts of four seasons in AA and was turned into a part time minor league catcher last season.

I don't think we should get ahead of ourselves.

Worst case he looks like a fine LHP platoon catcher at this point and I've always argued we could patch a decent platoon catcher tandem together with some effort and at far less cost and a ppoximate value to what Wieters projects.

[TouchemAll]

I don't know about making better calls, but he very simply do to his physical size better at setting a low target.

I think this is obvious. Wieters struggles to set a low target (because he is huge for a catcher). He often back hands low pitches (thumb down) which causes his glove to pull out of the strike zone and get strikes called balls.

You couple the better pitch framing with Wieters lost arm strength (at least initially) and I think Caleb will clearly be the better defensive catcher next year.

Who knows what you get with Wieters as a hitter next year

Yep said this earlier this year both the LOW setup and the framing IMHO are having a POSITIVE effect on the entire staff.

[Tx Oriole]

Hear me out, he has been masterful with the pitching staff and I think calls a better game than Wieters, the staff ERA would reflect that. His power is coming around and there is room for growth. His defense is just as good and he doesn't cost $$$. I 100% trust Joseph with this staff more than I do Wieters. Just my opinion but I think holding onto him and letting Wieters go is in the Orioles best interest and better for the pitching staff. We all know that winning is about pitching and if we have to sacrifice some offense at the catcher position to better manage our rotation then I am willing to do that.

Thoughts?[/

I like Joseph.

[UpstateNYfan]

I don't know about making better calls, but he very simply do to his physical size better at setting a low target.

I think this is obvious. Wieters struggles to set a low target (because he is huge for a catcher). He often back hands low pitches (thumb down) which causes his glove to pull out of the strike zone and get strikes called balls.

You couple the better pitch framing with Wieters lost arm strength (at least initially) and I think Caleb will clearly be the better defensive catcher next year.

Who knows what you get with Wieters as a hitter next year

Exactly. Wieters has (had) and electric arm and decent bat, plus he is a switch hitter. There is a lot to like about Wieters. He is a good defensive catcher. Long term, will his body hold up? Joseph has been a pleasant surprise. I think he has worked hard, maybe harder than Wieters because he has to. Wieters is and will be the incumbent. IMO, his smaller (CJ) size allows him to present better targets for the pitcher. He also reminds pitchers to concentrate by flapping the glove a bit during the windup. He has a much quieter glove than Wieters. The other thing I like about Joseph and Hundley too is when a pitcher starts going south, he goes out and talks to him. Over the years I have watched pitchers like Arietta (Tillman too), start to unravel and Wieters rarely walked to the mound to give advice or just slow the game for a moment to help get back on track.

It's good to have a couple decent catchers in the system. Caleb is one of the feel good stories of the year. He will hang somewhere in the ML's for a few years and make enough money (and pension, health care) as a reward for his work.

[Redskins Rick]

Wieters has a strong reputation among his peers that he was an outstanding defensive catcher that called a good game and regularly received praises for calling a good game.

Not saying that Caleb isn't good, or anything like that.

But, given the SSS, haven't heard much around the league about their opinion of Caleb.

[terps19]

Its waaay too early to look at Joseph as anything more than a backup. But I agree he has played well of late.

I totally agree with this. We will see how the rest of the season goes. He is hitting .314 with an OPS of .923 since the all star break. And remember in 2013 he did hit 22 HRs and drove in 97RBIs in AA ball. Now how much of that is attributed to his age being at that level is a consideration. But he has shown pop and the ability to put the ball in play. I will be excited if he can even hit .250 with an OPS around .750-.800 the rest of the way.

[Odenton O]

He's basically the Steve Pearce of the catching position, is how I'm viewing him. I love it while it lasts, but I'm not confident it will last. I'm DEFINITELY not confident he can replace Matt Wieters as a starting catcher.

Right before I got to this post, I was thinking that given how people are talking about Caleb Joesph here, he sounds like the David Eckstein of catching. That scrappy guy with tons of intangibles that we can argue about forever.

[UpstateNYfan]

There's no question Caleb does one thing better than Wieters: frame pitches. However, that's all I'm ready to concede at this point.

Calling a game? I don't know that we can be as sure as we feel we are. I see a resurgent Chen with better command and velocity, I see Bud Norris being a better pitcher all year (including when Matt was playing), I see guys like Brach benefiting from Chiti and Wallace, etc. It's tough to say how much impact Caleb has on the pitching staff, but he absolutely frames pitches better.

Also, his caught stealing percentage is a small sample. And he's definitely not the offensive player that Wieters is.

He's basically the Steve Pearce of the catching position, is how I'm viewing him. I love it while it lasts, but I'm not confident it will last. I'm DEFINITELY not confident he can replace Matt Wieters as a starting catcher.

You bring D most every day, O comes and go. Pitchers can learn to pitch you, the other team cannot take your defense away.

[foxfield]

If nothing else, next year Joseph will be the best backup we've had for Wieters, hands down. And with Matt coming off TJS, Caleb might get to start 50 games or so. If CJ can position himself to be the starter after Matt leaves, good for him.

This is one of the most thoughtful threads that Ive seen posted here in a long time. It's really great that we are even considering Joseph and Wieters in the same discussion. Who would have thought this a few months ago? Joseph is way better than even the Os thought he was and given the opportunity to play has shown everyone that Joseph is a competent MLB catcher. Wieters just may be a first baseman in 2015.

This IS a really good thread and there has been excellent discussion from both sides. I think if anything this is a very good example of just how deep the talent pool for the Orioles has become over the last 3-4 years. If some one had posted early in March that the Orioles were good enough to be leading the AL and have one of the best records in baseball with the following set of facts they would be run out of here.

* Matt lost for season with injury

* Chris Davis batting under .200 in August with 17 dingers.

* JJ out with injury for a time and standing at 4 dingers on 8/4.

You could make a bigger list, but the fact that this team is really a testament to the whole being more than the sum of the parts, speaks to DD and Buck being on to something. I am really proud and really confident that while the next 12 months or so will offer some really difficult choices, I think we have the folks to get the job done and believe that it will get done. How that looks? Well, I'm hanging on for the ride.

[Shabadoo25]

It shouldn't be too tough for Matt to transition from a catcher's mitt to a first basemen's mitt next year.

Just sayin'.

[Frobby]

When Wieters went down, I really expected our playoff chances to go down the drain. I've been pleasantly surprised at the contributions that Joseph and Hundley have made, and that the pitchers have done so well in Wieters' absence. Whether that is because Joseph and Hundley call a better game, set a better target, or frame pitches better, or whether it is because Wallace and Chiti have helped the pitchers to improve no matter who is catching, or some other reason, I don't know. On the whole, I think we'd be better with Wieters, but it's good to know that he is not as indispensable to the pitching and defense as we'd been led to believe. That fact certainly calls into question whether we'd pay a huge amount to keep him when we seem to be able to compete without him.

[Aristotelian]

It shouldn't be too tough for Matt to transition from a catcher's mitt to a first basemen's mitt next year.

Just sayin'.

Unless Chris Davis is non-tendered, he will be our 1B next year. Matt will not have to transition until 2016 at the earliest, and he may not be on the Orioles by that time.

[MrOrange82]

Back to back solid games with the bat and suddenly he's the second coming of Bench. It's how the Hangout works.

I don't really "believe" in Caleb's bat. I'd be (very) pleasantly surprised if he could manage a .240ish BA with very occasional power. His defense, however, is much more believable, IMO. I think he's done a great job behind the plate, and that was true looong before his 35 AB, post-AS hot streak.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't really "believe" in Caleb's bat. I'd be (very) pleasantly surprised if he could manage a .240ish BA with very occasional power. His defense, however, is much more believable, IMO. I think he's done a great job behind the plate, and that was true looong before his 35 AB, post-AS hot streak.

There are no reports of him ever throwing this well before.

*I don't want to give the idea that I am anything but pleased for him and with his performance thus far.*

[PA724_Oriole]

In case the kid actually has figured something out and plays this way (consistentlyl the way up to next year's trade deadline, the Os would definitely have to look at the possibilities of a Wieters trade.