Don't Look Now but Joseph Might be a Better a Catcher for the Orioles...

[Rene88]

I'm telling you, Joseph has a good plate approach and some pop. His minor league numbers are not comparable to Wieters but I think he can do better than his May/June splits.

So far his progression in OPS: May .251, June .674, July .696, August 1.429. By April of next year, I see him at about 3.500.

I would take .700 from our C with stellar defense and league minimum salary. CJ is quickly becoming one of my favorite O's.

I drank the hatorade and even gargled with it at first regarding this kid, man was I wrong. Glad to see CJ doing well.

[mdbdotcom]

It's good to see him doing well. OPS nearing .700. With his defense, that would be fine.

[atomic]

Rick Dempsey was a starter for us for 10 1/2 years. He had a career OPS of .664 And Elrod Hendricks career OPS was .666. I think Joseph can be successful with an OPS around that if his fielding continues to be what it is.

You can manage with a couple of players who aren't superstars with that bat but produce defensively in positions like shortstop, catcher and second base.

[MurphDogg]

Rick Dempsey was a starter for us for 10 1/2 years. He had a career OPS of .664 And Elrod Hendricks career OPS was .666. I think Joseph can be successful with an OPS around that if his fielding continues to be what it is.

You can manage with a couple of players who aren't superstars with that bat but produce defensively in positions like shortstop, catcher and second base.

Rick Dempsey had played in nearly 500 Major League games by the time he was Caleb Joseph's age. It is possible that Joseph breaks the mold and becomes the next Paul Lo Duca and achieves MLB success after being a 28 year-old rookie, but it is much more likely that he is playing over his head and will be out of the league in two years. Who was the last successful Major Leaguer to spend four seasons at AA?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Rick Dempsey had played in nearly 500 Major League games by the time he was Caleb Joseph's age. It is possible that Joseph breaks the mold and becomes the next Paul Lo Duca and achieves MLB success after being a 28 year-old rookie, but it is much more likely that he is playing over his head and will be out of the league in two years. Who was the last successful Major Leaguer to spend four seasons at AA?

Maybe, but his situation is a bit unique. He spent time in AA not because of his hitting, but because of his defense. Much of that being technique/footwork. I think you'd have to admit that his defense doesn't look like much of a problem, no? Assuming he can at least hit LHP (which I think he can and will for awhile) and play acceptable defense (which I think he can and will for awhile), I think he's got a chance to stick around for more than 2 years. Maybe not as a starter of course.

[MurphDogg]

Maybe, but his situation is a bit unique. He spent time in AA not because of his hitting, but because of his defense. Much of that being technique/footwork. I think you'd have to admit that his defense doesn't look like much of a problem, no? Assuming he can at least hit LHP (which I think he can and will for awhile) and play acceptable defense (which I think he can and will for awhile), I think he's got a chance to stick around for more than 2 years. Maybe not as a starter of course.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out the answer to my question but Baseball Reference's fantastic player rater is not perfect for this kind of search. I was able to determine that in the last 50 years, there have been ten 28 year-old (or older) rookie position players (non Japanese Leaguers) that made at least one All Star team in their career and of those, five were catchers. Lo Duca and Melvin Mora were the only two to make more than one All-Star team. The fact that Joseph is a catcher seems to somewhat mitigate the strangeness of his meandering journey to the big leagues, but of those five All-Star catchers, only Lo Duca and Bob Brenly had seasons where they accrued more than 2 WAR.

[Just Regular]

He's done well enough to earn a book now. I think he's benefited to an extent these first 150 PA from being a 28 y.o. rookie - in general, pitchers and advance scouts don't worry much about that kind of player. Now that he's making the league take notice, the game of adjust and adjust back will start soon.

[Redskins Rick]

Yeah, I was trying to figure out the answer to my question but Baseball Reference's fantastic player rater is not perfect for this kind of search. I was able to determine that in the last 50 years, there have been ten 28 year-old (or older) rookie position players (non Japanese Leaguers) that made at least one All Star team in their career and of those, five were catchers. Lo Duca and Melvin Mora were the only two to make more than one All-Star team. The fact that Joseph is a catcher seems to somewhat mitigate the strangeness of his meandering journey to the big leagues, but of those five All-Star catchers, only Lo Duca and Bob Brenly had seasons where they accrued more than 2 WAR.

Mora played 66 games for the Mets at the age of 27.

[Redskins Rick]

That's just super. He was still a rookie at the age of 28. (Because he had a total of 39 plate appearances in those 66 games).

Awe. Thanks

[CA-ORIOLE]

He's done well enough to earn a book now. I think he's benefited to an extent these first 150 PA from being a 28 y.o. rookie - in general, pitchers and advance scouts don't worry much about that kind of player. Now that he's making the league take notice, the game of adjust and adjust back will start soon.

This is true. I wouldn't say I am unconcerned about near full exposure to RHP and he looks pretty much to be a pull hitter susceptible to shifts.

[MurphDogg]

Awe. Thanks

Heh, I did a quick delete while doing further research. It appears Baseball-Reference is mistaken and he used up his rookie status in 1999 because he was on the active roster for 45+ days before September 1st. He was definitely on the MLB roster from May 30th to June 9th (11 days) and June 23rd to August 1st (41 days). So it looks like you're right, he should be excluded from the data set. I will contact Baseball-Reference about the error.

[Redskins Rick]

Heh, I did a quick delete while doing further research. It appears Baseball-Reference is mistaken and he used up his rookie status in 1999 because he was on the active roster for 45+ days before September 1st. He was definitely on the MLB roster from May 30th to June 9th (11 days) and June 23rd to August 1st (41 days). So it looks like you're right, he should be excluded from the data set. I will contact Baseball-Reference about the error.

Wow, how about that.

At that time, wasn't too many utility guys that could play CF and the IF.

The ultimate super sub.

In 1999, he played everywhere except for Catcher and 1st.

[MurphDogg]

Wow, how about that.

At that time, wasn't too many utility guys that could play CF and the IF.

The ultimate super sub.

In 1999, he played everywhere except for Catcher and 1st.

Really bizarre to carry a non Rule 5 guy for almost two months and only give him 29 plate appearances.

[atomic]

Rick Dempsey had played in nearly 500 Major League games by the time he was Caleb Joseph's age. It is possible that Joseph breaks the mold and becomes the next Paul Lo Duca and achieves MLB success after being a 28 year-old rookie, but it is much more likely that he is playing over his head and will be out of the league in two years. Who was the last successful Major Leaguer to spend four seasons at AA?

I am not saying that Joseph is going to be the next Rick Dempsey...I am stating that he doesn't have to hit all that well to be an adequate catcher for a winning team. .664 OPS isn't all that great but the O's had some outstanding seasons with him playing catcher most games.

[Redskins Rick]

Really bizarre to carry a non Rule 5 guy for almost two months and only give him 29 plate appearances.

But got 16 Plate appearances in the NLCS.

In the regular season.

45 games, he only started 4 games.

Pinch Hit 5 times and Pinch Run 7 times.

The rest of the time, he was defensive sub.

The ultimate super sub.