Buck would not commit to Ubaldo getting another start.

[BradyBunch]

I guess MG has been pitching above his class his entire career then since his career era is 3.64. Ubaldo's era this year is nearing 5 and is a walking machine. No way Ubaldo this season is a better option than MG going down the stretch.

Yes cause 68 games pitched compared to 231 games is equatable. Btw, his ERA has risen each year since he started pitching for the O's. :rofl:

[larrytt]

Gonzo only out pitched him in July.

No, he outpitched him in April (5.19 to 6.59), as well as July (1.82 to 9.82) and August (4.09 to 7.84). Ubaldo only barely outpitched him in May, 3.12 to 3.34. If you want to combine July and August due to small sample size, Gonzalez also wins there, 2.43 (6 starts, 40.2 innings, 11 earned runs) to 8.36 (3 starts, 14 inning, 13 earned runs).

Gonzo was pitching over his ability, period.

Not really. His ERA the last two seasons has been 3.25 (15 starts) and 3.78 (28 starts), and his lifetime ERA is 3.64. His ERA this season is 3.80. (Those are his only seasons in the majors.) So he's pitching below his ability, if anything. Did you look at his stats before making that statement? Did you know that Ubaldo has a 3.99 lifetime ERA, below Gonzalez's 3.64, and that his ERA the last four years has been 4.82, 3.30, 4.68, and 5.40? Those aren't very good stats for three of those four years.

I'm not going to bother going over every point you wrote, such as the claim that "What makes you think he is 100% consistent for the next 5 starts? He's been up and down as much as Ubaldo has been." That's just wrong. (And I never said he'dd be "100% consistent for the next 5 starts," or anything close to that - when you have to put words in my mouth to make a point you should rethink your argument.) There's a reason why Ubaldo has a 4.82 ERA and Gonzalez a 3.80. You keep bringing up June, but that was one bad month, and is the primary reason why Gonzalez has an ERA of "only" 3.80. If you are going to cherry pick your stats, of course you can make anyone look good or bad. That's why it's best to look at overall stats as well as more recent trends. Gonzalez wins on both.

And you keep ignoring the the problem that Ubaldo started slowly last year and this year, and is now essentially starting over - and who knows when or if he'll get it back together. Meanwhile, Gonzalez has a 2.43 ERA in July and August. How many times are you going to bring up June before you look at what he's DOING instead of his one really bad month? Remember, we're talking about a guy with a 3.64 lifetime ERA. Ubaldo's only pitched well once in the last four years. (Yes, he pitched great in 2010, when he had a 97 mph fastball, which he no longer has. A lot of pitchers pitched well in 2010 who aren't pitching well now.) Let's compare their ERA's side by side for the last four years:

2011: Ubaldo 4.68 (Gonzalez not in majors yet)

2012: Ubaldo 5.40, Gonzalez 3.25

2013: Ubaldo 3.30, Gonzalez 3.78

2014: Ubaldo 4.82, Gonzalez 3.80, 2.43 in July and August

Lifetime: Ubaldo 3.99, Gonzalez 3.64

We're in a pennant race. Who do you choose?

[Il BuonO]

Yes cause 68 games pitched compared to 231 games is equatable. Btw, his ERA has risen each year since he started pitching for the O's. :rofl:

Dude can't find the plate but you want to talk about how many games he's pitched. You brought up perspective before, how about relevancy?

Gonzalez has never been above 3.2 BB/9 in his career while your champion has an ungodly 5.4 BB/9 going into tonight. Miguel isn't flashy but he gets the job done usually with us in good enough position to hand it over to the pen. The same can't be said for the $52 million dollar kid.

And whether it was his first or fifteenth start after the DL Gonzalez had pitched better than him for the year.

Perspective.

[O's are Legends]

Yes cause 68 games pitched compared to 231 games is equatable. Btw, his ERA has risen each year since he started pitching for the O's. :rofl:

Yup, a era under 4 in the AL east three years in a row and thanks to your great baseball knowledge I know MG is a bum and will settle into his career norm of a above 4era despite never posting one in his career.

Sports is about what you're doing right now. You can't be serious thinking Ubaldo is a better option than MG. When you lead MLB in walks given up you're a recipe for disaster.

[larrytt]

Gonzo hasn't pitched consistently month to month all year. He's up and down. He already is pitching worse then he did in July.

And his "worse" (4.09 ERA in August in two starts) is a lot better than Ubaldo's 7.84 in August (also two starts). Is this really the argument you want to make, that because Gonzalez dropped from 1.82 in July to 4.09 in August we should switch to the 7.84 guy who just gave up more runs in 4.1 innings (six) than Gonzalez gave up in all of August (5 in two starts and 11 innings)? I don't think you are going to win that argument!!!

Keep in mind that even in his other August start Ubaldo gave up 3 runs in 6 IP, which would be a 4.50 ERA, still well above Gonzalez's August ERA. But now we're getting into really small sample sizes. Want larger ones? Take your pick - all season, or all season minus April (as you did in your posting that I originally responded to), or even career stats. Gonzalez wins.

[larrytt]

Yes cause 68 games pitched compared to 231 games is equatable. Btw, his ERA has risen each year since he started pitching for the O's. :rofl:

You don't consider three years, 68 games, 62 starts, 390.1 innings, to a 3.64 ERA significant??? Quality counts more than quantity. Over the same period (2012-2014) Ubaldo pitched to 4.37 ERA, and that doesn't even include his 5.10 the year before (2011). Other than Ubaldo's great second half last season Gonzalez has out-pitched him throughout his career.

[olehippi]

I think the best thing for the Orioles and Jimenez is to shut it down for the rest of the year and start fresh next spring. If nothing else, find a way to hide him on the DL until the rosters expand in 2 weeks. Then they can hide him in the BP. And during the off-season and in ST, someone has to work with Jimenez mechanics and tighten up his delivery.

[Il BuonO]

I think the best thing for the Orioles and Jimenez is to shut it down for the rest of the year and start fresh next spring. If nothing else, find a way to hide him on the DL until the rosters expand in 2 weeks. Then they can hide him in the BP. And during the off-season and in ST, someone has to work with Jimenez mechanics and tighten up his delivery.[/QUOTE]

Palmer knows pitching. Someone in the GT said he was making excuses for Jimenez. If he was I didn't hear him and I listened to the whole broadcast. He needs some quality time with Rick Peterson down in Sarasota.

Peterson can work wonders.

[Malike]

I think the best thing for the Orioles and Jimenez is to shut it down for the rest of the year and start fresh next spring. If nothing else, find a way to hide him on the DL until the rosters expand in 2 weeks. Then they can hide him in the BP. And during the off-season and in ST, someone has to work with Jimenez mechanics and tighten up his delivery.[/QUOTE]

Peterson can work wonders.

Problem is, pretty much all of Ubaldo's success has been from the funky deception in his delivery. He's no longer the 97 MPH fireballer, if they take away his deception to give him a different delivery, he'll likely not be good at all. It's a bad signing, and it's going to haunt this team.

[El Gordo]

Problem is, pretty much all of Ubaldo's success has been from the funky deception in his delivery. He's no longer the 97 MPH fireballer, if they take away his deception to give him a different delivery, he'll likely not be good at all. It's a bad signing, and it's going to haunt this team.

Dontrelle Willis II.

[LookitsPuck]

Problem is, pretty much all of Ubaldo's success has been from the funky deception in his delivery. He's no longer the 97 MPH fireballer, if they take away his deception to give him a different delivery, he'll likely not be good at all. It's a bad signing, and it's going to haunt this team.

He got away without throwing 97 last year. He reinvented himself last year with his sinker/splitter.

The difference between last year and this year all comes down to control. He's walking far too many batters. That's really all it is.

[TonySoprano]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Buck on UJ; As the games dwindle youve got 2 continue 2 put your best foot out there. On a given night it might b Ubaldo. Tonight it wasn’t</p>— Dan Connolly (@danconnollysun) <a href="

">August 17, 2014</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[larrytt]

Some seem to believe that Ubaldo has been a top pitcher over the last few years. Let's look at his stats, dividing the last four years into pre-allstar and post-allstar, with number of starts in parenthesis.

2011 Pre : 4.14 (17)

2011 Post: 5.36 (15)

2012 Pre : 4.50 (17)

2012 Post: 6.63 (14)

2013 Pre : 4.56 (19)

2013 Post: 1.82 (13)

2014 Pre : 4.52 (18)

2014 Post: 7.84 (2)

Lifetime ERA: 3.99

ERA 2011-2014: 4.52

Basically all his star power comes from 2010 and before, and from 13 starts in 2013. Other than the second half of this season so far that's the least amount of starts he's had in any half in all of those years. His 4.82 ERA this year is only a little higher than his ERA over the past four years.

For comparison, here are Gonzalez's stats since his debut in 2012. He's pitched in relief six times as well, so in parenthesis if he did both it shows games played/games started.

2012 Pre : 1.93 (4/1)

2012 Post: 3.53 (14)

2013 Pre : 3.48 (16)

2013 Post: 4.22 (14/12)

2014 Pre : 4.04 (16/15)

2014 Post: 2.92 (4)

Lifetime ERA: 3.64

Pretty consistent stats. His 3.80 ERA this year is a little below his lifetime ERA, but mostly because of a bad June. As noted earlier, he's pitched to a 2.43 ERA in July and August (6 starts).

[kelsey59]

Albert Belle all over again.

[Malike]

He got away without throwing 97 last year. He reinvented himself last year with his sinker/splitter.

The difference between last year and this year all comes down to control. He's walking far too many batters. That's really all it is.

His control stems from his mechanics, which he can't repeat, and his mechanics are also the reason he's been a successful pitcher at 90 MPH. Ubaldo has essentially had 2 dynamite half seasons in his career, the rest is just......whatever. Everyone remembers the 2 dynamite halfs that he's had and overlook the full body of work, which doesn't warrant 13M a year.