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TSN's Deveney's Take on Roberts-Cubs

dgroomes

By dgroomes
in Orioles Talk

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davearm All-Star

davearm

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Pie and Cedeno for Greene, but you won't include Pie in a deal for Roberts? You are losing me there, Dave.

The Cubs can't afford both Fuld and Theriot in the everyday lineup. It's one or the other. Obviously Greene would send Theriot to the bench. Roberts would not.

If the Cubs get Roberts and Greene, then I don't give a hoot who winds up with Pie.

However if they get just Roberts, then Pie has to stay.

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tywright Perennial All-Star

tywright

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Greene actually had below average D in 2007.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/DisplayCharts.py?PlayerID=1826&fpos=6&year=2007

He was was pretty good in 2006 prior to getting hurt though.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/DisplayCharts.py?PlayerID=1826&fpos=6&year=2006

And for comparisons sake, KG had an OPS+ of 100 in 2007 (97 in 2006) and JP also had 100 in 2007 (83 in 2006).

Miggy had an 109 OPS+ in 2007 and 126 in 2006. Tulowitzki had a 108 in 2007.

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Rex Thunder All-Star

Rex Thunder

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http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=348723

Can we get Deveney to join the Cubs front office? :)

Maybe we can flip one of our current OF's for a MLB ready SS or 2B prospect... wont happen... but its nice to know that there's one columnist out there that thinks a Roberts/ Pie deal should happen.

Sorry if this has already been stated.. but this makes perfect sense. This is a deal that the Orioles would be foolish to turn down- as it not only gives us a sick outfield... but it would replace the biggest things we'd be giving up in Roberts- his leadoff bat and speed on the bases. So while it'd leave the hole at 2nd (but w/ a possible trade chip in Scott)- it wouldn't leave as much of a hole in the lineup.

Keep holding out Macphail. It's Pie or nothing! :)

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Number5 Hangout Grand Counsel

Number5

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The Cubs can't afford both Fuld and Theriot in the everyday lineup. It's one or the other. Obviously Greene would send Theriot to the bench. Roberts would not.

If the Cubs get Roberts and Greene, then I don't give a hoot who winds up with Pie.

However if they get just Roberts, then Pie has to stay.

If that is the case Dave, wouldn't the Cubs be better served to offer a Pie-led package for Roberts and your "usual suspects" for Greene? A Murton-led package is very likely to get you Greene. Roberts is the bigger prize. Greene is certain to leave San Diego after 2009 and would also be a lesser chance of resigning with the Cubs than Roberts would. Why offer your big chip for Greene? I'm not with you there at all.

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Rex Thunder All-Star

Rex Thunder

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Peralta is younger and cheaper. Btw, not sure how i am overrating him...I expect around a 800 OPS and average defense.

And the Cubs seem to value BRob more than Greene, so if that is the case, why not argue they should give up Pie for BRob?

Are you arguing what YOU want or what the CUBS want?

That's what I'm hearing now that I'm catching up on this thread. Anyone who vehemently argues that Roberts is NOT worth Pie- on a team that wants/needs to WIN NOW- isn't thinking clearly. Roberts is a proven all-star 2nd baseman- who will help any lineup. Pie has proven NOTHING at the major league level.

Nothing you can say will guarantee that Pie comes in to his own this year, and for a team that is built to win right now- that's quite a gamble with a top tier 2nd baseman staring you in the face.

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davearm All-Star

davearm

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If that is the case Dave, wouldn't the Cubs be better served to offer a Pie-led package for Roberts and your "usual suspects" for Greene? A Murton-led package is very likely to get you Greene. Roberts is the bigger prize. Greene is certain to leave San Diego after 2009 and would also be a lesser chance of resigning with the Cubs than Roberts would. Why offer your big chip for Greene? I'm not with you there at all.

Follow along.

If Pie is traded, Fuld will have to play CF.

If Fuld is playing CF, I need Theriot out of the lineup. Don't want both in there.

If Theriot is out of the lineup, I need an upgrade at SS.

Greene is an upgrade at SS. Therefore, Pie can be traded for Greene.

Roberts is not an upgrade at SS. Therefore, Pie cannot be traded for Roberts.

Any sort of three-way deal that puts both Greene and Roberts in CHI, and Pie in BAL, is fine by me.

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davearm All-Star

davearm

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That's what I'm hearing now that I'm catching up on this thread. Anyone who vehemently argues that Roberts is NOT worth Pie- on a team that wants/needs to WIN NOW- isn't thinking clearly. Roberts is a proven all-star 2nd baseman- who will help any lineup. Pie has proven NOTHING at the major league level.

Nothing you can say will guarantee that Pie comes in to his own this year, and for a team that is built to win right now- that's quite a gamble with a top tier 2nd baseman staring you in the face.

I'm thinking very clearly.

Roberts is not enough of an upgrade at 2B to warrant opening a gaping hole in CF.

You can't look at Pie vs. Roberts in a vaccuum the way you have.

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tywright Perennial All-Star

tywright

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Follow along.

If Pie is traded, Fuld will have to play CF.

If Fuld is playing CF, I need Theriot out of the lineup. Don't want both in there.

If Theriot is out of the lineup, I need an upgrade at SS.

Greene is an upgrade at SS. Therefore, Pie can be traded for Greene.

Roberts is not an upgrade at SS. Therefore, Pie cannot be traded for Roberts.

Any sort of three-way deal that puts both Greene and Roberts in CHI, and Pie in BAL, is fine by me.

How about send Theriot our way so we have him for SS or 2B.

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Number5 Hangout Grand Counsel

Number5

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I'm thinking very clearly.

Roberts is not enough of an upgrade at 2B to warrant opening a gaping hole in CF.

You can't look at Pie vs. Roberts in a vaccuum the way you have.

With all due respect, I'm not sure it is us that is looking at it in a vacuum. Hendry has already stated that he has lined up two deals. Maybe this is exactly what he has lined up. Or perhaps it is the Pie-led deal for Roberts and a deal to Texas for Byrd. I don't know, but, in any case, I doubt if he is thinking one-dimensionally about this. I know McPhail isn't. I'm just saying that a package of your "usual suspects" without Pie is less likely to land you Roberts than Greene.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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FWIW here's a run down of Peralta's defense from MLTR.

The average AL shortstop is hitting .283/.339/.416 this season, very similar to Peralta's output this year. So he'll be at least tolerable with the stick and can probably surpass that. How about defense?

Peralta's range doesn't seem to impress the fine gentlemen of The Fielding Bible. He's below average on plays to his left, and even worse going to his right. On the other hand, they describe his arm as "accurate" and note that he was the best in baseball at turning double plays in 2005.

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YoungBob12 Rookie

YoungBob12

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They trade Murton for Byrd who would llikely hit better than Pie the next 2 years.

The only problem being Texas has already said 'no thanks' to Murton for Byrd straight up. The Rangers have asked for a "Gallagher-type" pitcher in addition to Murton. I don't see the Cubs making that move.

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Rob H Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Rob H

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Pie and Cedeno for Greene, but you won't include Pie in a deal for Roberts? You are losing me there, Dave.

Pretty simple.

Greene is probably a five to six win upgrade over Theriot. Roberts is a two or three win upgrade over DeRosa.

If we were going to trade Pie, I'd rather we do it in the trade that helps us most.

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davearm All-Star

davearm

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With all due respect, I'm not sure it is us that is looking at it in a vacuum. Hendry has already stated that he has lined up two deals. Maybe this is exactly what he has lined up. Or perhaps it is the Pie-led deal for Roberts and a deal to Texas for Byrd. I don't know, but, in any case, I doubt if he is thinking one-dimensionally about this. I know McPhail isn't. I'm just saying that a package of your "usual suspects" without Pie is less likely to land you Roberts than Greene.

I'm not sure how you can make this statement, considering a package without Pie is very likely going to land Roberts, while there's nothing to suggest that Greene is even available.

Regardless, I've said several times now that if both Roberts and a significant SS upgrade come over, then I don't really give a rip who winds up with Pie.

It's Roberts for Pie *without* an upgrade at SS that I'm opposed to. And the O's don't have a SS upgrade to offer. It's really that simple.

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