Fly On The Wall

[islandecho]

Over this season's record? The team only had him for 1/3 of it! Can't disagree with you more. Losing all three (Cruz, Kakes, Miller) may cost the team 5-6 wins next year.

Andrew Miller was worth 5-6 wins in 20 innings? Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there.

Not only does he lockdown when he is in the game, thereby saving wins, but he also saves the bullpen from getting overly tired because they are not overused. Thereby saving the arms of the other relievers and making them more effective over the entire course of a year as well. Watch.

[AlbionHero]

Andrew Miller over 60 innings gave up 14 runs last year. Tommy Hunter over 60 innings gave up 20 runs last year.

Theres a 6 run difference over the course of the entire season between the two. Thats miniscule.

[PaulFolk]

Not only does he lockdown when he is in the game, thereby saving wins, but he also saves the bullpen from getting overly tired because they are not overused. Thereby saving the arms of the other relievers and making them more effective over the entire course of a year as well. Watch.

I'm not sure I get this. Miller was outstanding, but he wasn't exactly a guy who ate up multiple innings. With the Orioles, only 3 times in his 23 regular season appearances did he pitch more than one inning. His high was 1.2 innings.

The Orioles can easily find a pitcher to pitch as many innings as Miller did. They just won't be as dominant.

[Fla_O'sfan]

Miller never was going to be signed. Everyone in the fanbase knew he was a rental (The O's weren't even one of the 22 teams that contacted him, according to reports). A medium market team can't pay a middle reliever 36-40 million dollars.

Cruz was more of a question mark, though I think most people expected him gone since we aren't the type of team to give players big contracts near the end of their career.

If 22 teams contacted him, I would speculate that a lot of medium market teams did so.

[AlbionHero]

If 22 teams contacted him' date=' I would speculate that a lot of medium market teams did so.[/quote']

I'm sure a lot of those were "We'll give you 3 years/18 mil" kinda talks and then they were quickly shot down.

[SouthRider]

Andrew Miller was worth 5-6 wins in 20 innings? Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there.

Orioles record on July 31 (without Miller) 60-47 for a .561 win %

Orioles record after July 31 (with Miller) 36-19 for a .655 win %

If the O's kept their pre-Miller winning pct the entire year they would only have won 91 games. That's a 5 game difference right there.

Of course there were other reasons besides Miller the O's took off late in the season - other players getting hot, opposing teams laying down late in the season - but I think people are vastly undervaluing the contributions of Miller, Cruz, and Markakis.

The O's lost their best reliever, their best power hitter, and their best OBP guy; and replaced them with...... no one. Whatever fodder the O's trek out there is going to be a major step down.

I agree with Islandecho. The O's are so adverse to over-paying some guy in the last year or two of his contract that they refuse to reap the rewards of having that player in the front of his deal. Congratulations Orioles. We can all laugh at Seattle in 2017 when they are over paying Cruz. Or perhaps we'll laugh at Cruz next year when he only hits 30 bombs instead of 40.

[mdbdotcom]

It's no wonder we've had to endure 17 straight losing seasons.

[luismatos4prez]

Orioles record on July 31 (without Miller) 60-47 for a .561 win %

Orioles record after July 31 (with Miller) 36-19 for a .655 win %

Orioles record on August 31 (without Kelly Johnson): 79-56 (.585)

Orioles record in September (with Kelly Johnson): 17-10 (.630)

[islandecho]

Orioles record on July 31 (without Miller) 60-47 for a .561 win %

Orioles record after July 31 (with Miller) 36-19 for a .655 win %

If the O's kept their pre-Miller winning pct the entire year they would only have won 91 games. That's a 5 game difference right there.

Of course there were other reasons besides Miller the O's took off late in the season - other players getting hot, opposing teams laying down late in the season - but I think people are vastly undervaluing the contributions of Miller, Cruz, and Markakis.

The O's lost their best reliever, their best power hitter, and their best OBP guy; and replaced them with...... no one. Whatever fodder the O's trek out there is going to be a major step down.

I agree with Islandecho. The O's are so adverse to over-paying some guy in the last year or two of his contract that they refuse to reap the rewards of having that player in the front of his deal. Congratulations Orioles. We can all laugh at Seattle in 2017 when they are over paying Cruz. Or perhaps we'll laugh at Cruz next year when he only hits 30 bombs instead of 40.

Exactly.

[AlbionHero]

Orioles record on August 31 (without Kelly Johnson): 79-56 (.585)

Orioles record in September (with Kelly Johnson): 17-10 (.630)

O's are toast next year if Kelly Johnson doesn't come back

[Tx Oriole]

I am actually surprised there hasn't been more of an outcry from the Oriole Fan base. Think about what we lost. Arguably the two best players in baseball at their position.

The major league home run hitter from last year in Cruz. A player who carried this team the first half of the year and who was our best hitter in the playoffs.

A LOCKDOWN reliever in Miller. I don't think there is any question that he was THE BEST middle reliever in baseball. He shortened the game by 1-2 innings every time he came in. What an advantage that was.

What irks me is it's as if we didn't even care about trying to retain them. No real effort that I could see was given. We were a good team last year. Very good. But we did not win the WS with them. So to actually lose them and expect us to be better, even with Manny and Weiters coming back? Mind boggling to me.

Add in the fact that we lost a long trusted and reliable player in Markakis (which I am actually fine with), and our team, as it stands today, is quite a bit weaker imo.

I wonder why some fans seem to think that not making some splash in the

middle of December is a bad thing. Nick choose to go to the Braves. Cruz turned

down the O's QOffer. Miller was never going to be resigned. I liked Nick and Cruz.

They just wanted to move on from the O's. There is a lot of time for DD to make

the moves he needs for the O's. IMO

[Aristotelian]

Exactly.

Let's say we sign Andrew Miller for four years. Now let's say Manny puts up a great year with no knee problems. Manny approaches us to ask for an extension to give him some long term security at a reasonable rate that works for the Orioles, similar to the Adam Jones deal. How will you feel when we say, "Sorry, we have locked up most of our payroll in our bullpen."

[JeterJumps]

Orioles record on August 31 (without Kelly Johnson): 79-56 (.585)

Orioles record in September (with Kelly Johnson): 17-10 (.630)

O's are toast next year if Kelly Johnson doesn't come back

LOLOL at both of these

[AlbionHero]

A one year wonder who had 162 game averages of roughly 35 homers and 105 RBI during his time in Texas.

Look, I understand there's people here who have media credentials or some connection to Orioles/MASN people and those people read this board, but it's okay to be critical sometimes, and right now people have every right to be.

Again, I don't advocate breaking the bank every single offseason, but barring special circumstances (Cruz for example), you're probably gonna have to pay more than fair value if you want to acquire an above average player via trade or free agency. It's the harsh reality of baseball in it's current state.

I'd be fine with paying a 30 year old Cruz 4 years/57 million. Not a 34 year old Cruz who could fall down to replacement level at any time.

Its not smart to look at only last year when giving a long deal. You have to consider what they will do in the future. And projection systems and past players of his ilk do not look pretty from 34-37.

[weams]

A one year wonder who had 162 game averages of roughly 35 homers and 105 RBI during his time in Texas.

Look, I understand there's people here who have media credentials or some connection to Orioles/MASN people and those people read this board, but it's okay to be critical sometimes, and right now people have every right to be.

Again, I don't advocate breaking the bank every single offseason, but barring special circumstances (Cruz for example), you're probably gonna have to pay more than fair value if you want to acquire an above average player via trade or free agency. It's the harsh reality of baseball in it's current state.

He never averaged 162 games. That is the disingenuous part of that. Cruz is good. I loved having him. By the way, Nick's neck gets fused tomorrow.