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Roch: Penn Cut

dkdc

By dkdc
in Orioles Talk

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

Posted
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Is he still the team's #1 prospect? Absolutely not.

And there are plenty of reasons for that which are well documented.

Is he still someone they are high on and think has a good chance of becoming a solid major league starter? Absolutely.

I am skeptical and I think they are as well as his stock has fallen not risen.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Well don't accuse me of denial when you seem to conveniently and in a naive fashion (IMO) overlook his past issues including work ethic, cocky arrogant attitude, missing team bus, and falling down stairs by tripping over his bag. Correct me if I am wrong but none of those things are going to cause him to be thought of highly when viewed in combination by the Orioles now are they?
Is a team gonna see those things as a positive? Of course not. But they aren't a glaring negative either. There are few concerns if any about his work ethic, especially now after battling back from surgery to be pitching well in ST. The past issues are minor issues that aren't very relevant. Plenty of kids make mistakes when they are 21-22 years old, and these were very minor ones. They may have cost him a shot at making the team out of the gate last year, but there is no possible way it diminished anyone's view of his abilities.
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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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I am skeptical and I think they are as well as his stock has fallen not risen.
His stock has fallen because of injuries and not pitching as well in a few short MLB stints. Not because of falling down some stairs or whatever else nonsense you want to believe. Those reasons may have had an impact on whether he made the team last year out of ST, but they are certainly irrelevant for him making the team in the future, as is eveident by them setting him up to be the first guy recalled once his health and arm strength are fully returned.
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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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Is a team gonna see those things as a positive? Of course not. But they aren't a glaring negative either. There are few concerns if any about his work ethic, especially now after battling back from surgery to be pitching well in ST. The past issues are minor issues that aren't very relevant. Plenty of kids make mistakes when they are 21-22 years old, and these were very minor ones. They may have cost him a shot at making the team out of the gate last year, but there is no possible way it diminished anyone's view of his abilities.

Sometimes how a player conducts himself can hinder his career would you not agree? So far, Penn has some negative history to overcome. Now you seem to think he has and I think he hasn't. So I guess we will have to just agree to disagree.

The fact is his career has had several setbacks instead of vaulting forward as he was originally on the fast track to success. Will this ultimately defeat his chances of success or not? That is the question. I think the odds are great that it will. You prefer to think not. Lets just end it at that. Ultimately he has to pitch his way onto the big league team and well enough to remain. I don't think he is good enough to do so and I think he has contributed greatly to hurting his chances. He is Matt Riley - the sequel.

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Mackus Hangout Grand Counsel

Mackus

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Ultimtately he has to pitch his way onto the big league team and well enough to remain. I don't think he is good enough to do so.
This I can at least understand and respect as an argument. If you don't think he has the talent to make it, fine. I disagree completely, and so will nearly every talent evaluator in baseball, but fine.

The biggest hurdles for Penn is going to be staying healthy. If he does that, he's got the stuff to be an MLB starter. I don't think his attitude or poise is something that will be a major hindrance at all.

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crstrobel AA

crstrobel

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Well don't accuse me of "denial" when you seem to conveniently and in a naive fashion (IMO) overlook his past issues including work ethic, cocky arrogant attitude, missing team bus, and falling down stairs by tripping over his bag. Correct me if I am wrong but none of those things are going to cause him to be thought of highly when viewed in combination by the Orioles now are they?

Why are you the only one harping on these things? Yes, these were mistakes, errors in judgement etc. But they all happend in years past. You do realize the kid is 23 right? People do mature. Seems to me you are rooting against him.

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Hank Scorpio Hangout Grand Counsel

Hank Scorpio

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I agree but to deny he has fallen from grace is also naive.

I won't sit here and tell you that he hasn't been disappointing to some, but I will qualify that by saying that you have to have some perspective.

The kid was 20 years old when he was initially called up. That's on the front office - he was obviously rushed entirely too fast and was not ready for that level of competition.

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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Sometimes how a player conducts himself can hinder his career would you not agree? So far, Penn has some negative history to overcome. Now you seem to think he has and I think he hasn't. So I guess we will have to just agree to disagree.

The fact is his career has had several setbacks instead of vaulting forward as he was originally on the fast track to success. Will this ultimately defeat his chances of success or not? That is the question. I think the odds are great that it will. You prefer to think not. Lets just end it at that. Ultimately he has to pitch his way onto the big league team and well enough to remain. I don't think he is good enough to do so and I think he has contributed greatly to hurting his chances. He is Matt Riley - the sequel.

One of my biggest issues is that you keep saying this "HISTORY." Missing the bus, falling down stairs, and getting reprimanded by Perlozzo happened all last spring training. It was ONE MONTH. You are making it seem that Penn has been a bad @$$ for his entire 5 years in the organization.

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JohnD Major Leaguer

JohnD

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Well don't accuse me of "denial" when you seem to conveniently and in a naive fashion (IMO) overlook his past issues including work ethic, cocky arrogant attitude, missing team bus, and falling down stairs by tripping over his bag. Correct me if I am wrong but none of those things are going to cause him to be thought of highly when viewed in combination by the Orioles now are they?

Teams in all sports have shown that they'll always value talent over even serious mistakes. But you keep harping on three relatively minor incidents that happened in the span of a few weeks and putting a scarlet letter on him. You are honestly, seriously, going to believe that those few weeks at the age of 21 or 22 have completely thrown everything else he's done into doubt?

Honestly, having seen him pitch much more often than you have, I knew you were full of crap from the get-go. Now that you've admitted you haven't even seen him pitch, and decided instead to be an antagonist over minor incidents that covered the span of a few weeks and haven't been repeated at any other time in his professional career, before or after, you shouldn't even continue this conversation. Seriously, give it up. Enron stock has more value than your opinion on Penn.

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Old#5fan Hangout Grand Counsel

Old#5fan

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I'm not piling on you, my friend. I'm just trying to get your argument straight.

You said that you prefer to evaluate players with your own two eyes as opposed through statistics. You said the following :

I was just asking how many times you have witnessed Penn pitch with your own two eyes, that's all!!!

Not many but in Penn's case I am admittedly going mostly on what I have read or heard about him, not on what I have seen.

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