Manny!!!!

[xKHx]

Manny is the best young player we've had since...... Ripken?

Moose, but we had Adam Jones young as well. Ripken was not lights out defender when he first played ss either quite the opposite.

[backwardsk]

And he will be making 30 million at 41. He is healthy this season, which is helping, but the long term prognosis isn't good.

So it has the potential to be an albatross, but 35% of the way through, they are ahead of the game.

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[DJHJR86]

Manny is the best young player we've had since...... Ripken?

Hands down. Without question. But I don't remember if Ripken (born in 86) was as sound defensively as Machado is at such a young age.

[Can_of_corn]

So it has the potential to be an albatross, but 35% of the way through, they are ahead of the game.

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Would any team in baseball take on the contract?

Then it's an albatross.

[Frobby]

Moose, but we had Adam Jones young as well. Ripken was not lights out defender when he first played ss either quite the opposite.

On Cal, the defensive stats disagree with you violently. Cal was a great SS, pretty much right away. Certainly I'd say Manny is a better 3B than Cal was a SS, so far (we'll have to see how he ages).

I think Manny is considerably better than Adam Jones. No knock on Adam there, but Manny's 2015 has been worth 4.8 rWAR in 88 games, and Adam's best full season was worth 4.8 rWAR. Manny stands a good chance of having a better BA, OBP, SLG and more homers this year than Adam has ever had in a season. Adam is the team leader and a deserving all-star, but Manny is better now and will be better in the future.

As to Mussina, it's really tough to compare a position player with a pitcher. I think Manny has a solid chance at being considered better than Mussina, so long as he can stay healthy. Which means, he'll be in the Hall of Fame.

[Tx Oriole]

I don't think $200 million will be enough. If Manny hits free agency after his six years are up, he's going to get $300 million easy. It'll take at least $250 if not $300 million to lock up unless he wants to settle for a lucrative four or five year deal so he can hit free agency after his age 27 or 28 season.

I can't even wrap my mind around the thought that he could get three hundred

million not even two hundred million. I want Manny signed long term but I sure

hope it wouldn't take that kind of money.

[xKHx]

On Cal, the defensive stats disagree with you violently. Cal was a great SS, pretty much right away. Certainly I'd say Manny is a better 3B than Cal was a SS, so far (we'll have to see how he ages).

I think Manny is considerably better than Adam Jones. No knock on Adam there, but Manny's 2015 has been worth 4.8 rWAR in 88 games, and Adam's best full season was worth 4.8 rWAR. Manny stands a good chance of having a better BA, OBP, SLG and more homers this year than Adam has ever had in a season. Adam is the team leader and a deserving all-star, but Manny is better now and will be better in the future.

As to Mussina, it's really tough to compare a position player with a pitcher. I think Manny has a solid chance at being considered better than Mussina, so long as he can stay healthy. Which means, he'll be in the Hall of Fame.

1.4 defensive war is not violently by any stretch. Ok fangraphs says differently but so does Jim Palmer and Ripken saying he needed time to adjust the first couple of years. If Manny stays healthy for 4 more years and puts up the numbers he should by the end of year then yes he will be better then Jones. If he gets hurt and misses significant time then I will refute you. As for Moose he needs time to prove. Moose is fringe Hall worthy he needs to put up good stats over a long period of time not close to that yet.

[backwardsk]

Would any team in baseball take on the contract?

Then it's an albatross.

Well the discounted part of his contract has come and gone. So I don't think teams would line up to take on the remaining 65% of it. But I don't think the Angels regret it. I wouldn't have run out and given him that contract, but the Angels were in position to do it. When it's over, I wouldn't be surprised if his total WAR*cost per WAR ends up being 90-95% of the $240M commitment. So maybe slightly above market prices. Albatross? It's not like California hasn't been able to commit a $1/4 BILLION to two other players since handing out the Pujols contract.

To relate it back to the thread, if Manny signs for $200M now and becomes a FA prior to his age 32 season, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he couldn't get another $200M. (I know you didn't make that point). Hell, who knows what the landscape will be 10 years from now. Maybe he'd be in line to sign a 1/40 deal at age 33.

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[Can_of_corn]

Well the discounted part of his contract has come and gone. So I don't think teams would line up to take on the remaining 65% of it. But I don't think the Angels regret it. I wouldn't have run out and given him that contract, but the Angels were in position to do it. When it's over, I wouldn't be surprised if his total WAR*cost per WAR ends up being 90-95% of the $240M commitment. So maybe slightly above market prices. Albatross? It's not like California hasn't been able to commit a $1/4 BILLION to two other players since handing out the Pujols contract.

To relate it back to the thread, if Manny signs for $200M now and becomes a FA prior to his age 32 season, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he couldn't get another $200M. (I know you didn't make that point). Hell, who knows what the landscape will be 10 years from now. Maybe he'd be in line to sign a 1/40 deal at age 33.

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If you gave the Angels the chance to get out of that contract at the end of the year, do they do it?

[Frobby]

1.4 defensive war is not violently by any stretch. Ok fangraphs says differently but so does Jim Palmer and Ripken saying he needed time to adjust the first couple of years. If Manny stays healthy for 4 more years and puts up the numbers he should by the end of year then yes he will be better then Jones. If he gets hurt and misses significant time then I will refute you. As for Moose he needs time to prove. Moose is fringe Hall worthy he needs to put up good stats over a long period of time not close to that yet.

I certainly can't predict whether Manny will stay healthy and have a better career than Jones has had. But he is a better player right now than Jones is, has been, or ever will be. And he is in a whole different universe if you compare Manny this season to Jones' age 22 season. Again, this is no knock on Jones, who is an excellent player.

[backwardsk]

If you gave the Angels the chance to get out of that contract at the end of the year, do they do it?

Good question. What's their plan? Are they trying to win around Trout? Then I think they keep him to give them one more competent hitter. How are they going to replace his production? Chris Davis? Are they trading Trout to the Cubs for Bryant, Rizzo, and Arrieta? Then, yeah, maybe that opt for the mulligan.

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[Can_of_corn]

Good question. What's their plan? Are they trying to win around Trout? Then I think they keep him to give them one more competent hitter. How are they going to replace his production? Chris Davis? Are they trading Trout to the Cubs for Bryant, Rizzo, and Arrieta? Then, yeah, maybe that opt for the mulligan.

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I think that whatever the plan they would take the payroll flexibility over that contract.

[Frobby]

I think that whatever the plan they would take the payroll flexibility over that contract.

I think so, too. Per fangraphs, Pujols has been worth about as much as his contract so far, but you have to figure he will decline while his salary escalates. He still has six years (and $175 mm) after this season and he's 35 years old.

[Stotle]

If you gave the Angels the chance to get out of that contract at the end of the year, do they do it?

No way. And I think the odds are the contract is long enough that it ends up being a surplus value overall, and potentially by a significant amount.

[Frobby]

No way. And I think the odds are the contract is long enough that it ends up being a surplus value overall, and potentially by a significant amount.

You do understand we are talking about Pujols, not Trout, right?