Is there any legitimate reason for Mike Mussina to go into the HOF as a Yankee instead of an Oriole?

[Can_of_corn]

The argument is he lied to a team that had lied to him when he signed his last team-friendly deal. O.K. Carry on.

I don't like it when folks renege on their word.

Pretty sure that's my prerogative.

It has nothing to do with anything the Orioles might have done.

[scOtt]

Here, take this Sporkle quiz. And yes, it is an impressive list -- only 20 pitchers have done it.

http://www.sporcle.com/games/notaratface/mlb-pitchers

13/20. Man that's an impressive list of those who DIDN'T win a 100 over!

[TonySoprano]

I don't like it when folks renege on their word.

Pretty sure that's my prerogative.

It has nothing to do with anything the Orioles might have done.

You're Mike Mussina, NY offer in hand. Now the ball is in fire sale Syd Thrift's hands to get Angelos to match or improve that offer. Good luck with that. You said yourself it was moot, the Orioles wouldn't have matched it. The Orioles should have never let it get to that point.

NY made a big push to get him; Baltimore did all they could to push him away in contract negotiations until the 24th hour. I don't blame him one bit for walking despite the fact that I hate the choice he made.

[Can_of_corn]

You're Mike Mussina, NY offer in hand. Now the ball is in fire sale Syd Thrift's hands to get Angelos to match or improve that offer. Good luck with that. You said yourself it was moot, the Orioles wouldn't have matched it. The Orioles should have never let it get to that point.

NY made a big push to get him; Baltimore did all they could to push him away in contract negotiations until the 24th hour. I don't blame him one bit for walking despite the fact that I hate the choice he made.

I wouldn't have made the statement about letting the O's match in the first place.

[Moose Milligan]

You're Mike Mussina, NY offer in hand. Now the ball is in fire sale Syd Thrift's hands to get Angelos to match or improve that offer. Good luck with that. You said yourself it was moot, the Orioles wouldn't have matched it. The Orioles should have never let it get to that point.

NY made a big push to get him; Baltimore did all they could to push him away in contract negotiations until the 24th hour. I don't blame him one bit for walking despite the fact that I hate the choice he made.

Ugh, Syd Thrift. *shudder*

When you put it that way, I can't blame him either. And if you want to cash in AND play for a team that'll be in the playoffs and probably go to the World Series (especially at that time) it's kind of a no brainer.

We're fans, but baseball is a business for the guys we root for. We often lose sight of that. This game has changed from the days where there was an absolute hatred for other teams. Remember Jackie Robinson retiring before playing for the Giants? Those days are long gone. Think about people you've worked with over the years at your respective jobs. How many of them have gone to work for a competitor? Same thing, just on a way bigger scale.

[scOtt]

You're Mike Mussina, NY offer in hand. Now the ball is in fire sale Syd Thrift's hands to get Angelos to match or improve that offer. Good luck with that. You said yourself it was moot, the Orioles wouldn't have matched it. The Orioles should have never let it get to that point.

NY made a big push to get him; Baltimore did all they could to push him away in contract negotiations until the 24th hour. I don't blame him one bit for walking despite the fact that I hate the choice he made.

WOW! I forgot that was Syd Thrift's doing. Dark f-ing days!

[DrungoHazewood]

I don't like that argument since he was on very few bad teams in his career. He was on 3 100+ win Yankee teams and a couple really good O's teams.

And Palmer's teams weren't any good?

[Can_of_corn]

And Palmer's teams weren't any good?

I wasn't talking about Palmer at all.

I was talking about pitching wins.

You a pitching win proponent all of a sudden?

[DrungoHazewood]

Dave Stieb's ERA+ was 122 and lead the league in ERA once, ERA+ twice (Mussina never did either), shutouts once. He just didn't pitch as long to rack up the career win totals. Should I be starting up the Dave Stieb HoF bandwagon?

I agree, he won a lot of games is an important point and he certainly won more than he lost. I just don't think he was one of the defining pitchers of his generation.

Dave Stieb was a very good, underrated pitcher. But by saying he's basically the same as Mussina you're not making a serious argument. Mike Mussina's career passed Stieb's about two years after he left the Orioles. Then he was a good pitcher for another 5-6 years. C'mon Moose. It's not even close. JAWS is just one measure, but by JAWS Stieb is the 66th-best starter of all time, Mussina 28th.

You're basically making the argument that Kevin Appier is exactly the same pitcher as Nolan Ryan and if Ryan goes in Appier should, too.

[TonySoprano]

I wouldn't have made the statement about letting the O's match in the first place.

Though many within the Orioles' front office never fully believed Mussina would leave Baltimore, last Friday's conversation between Tellem and majority owner Peter Angelos proved to be the last communication between the two parties. During his phone call with Tellem, Angelos declined to improve the team's six-year, $78 million bid extended to Mussina during a face-to-face meeting in Harrisburg, Pa., earlier this month.

Less than flattered by what he considered the Orioles' ponderous negotiating, Mussina chose not to contact Angelos before agreeing in principle to the Yankees' bid.

Earlier this month, Mussina said he intended to grant the Orioles right of last refusal. To Mussina, last Friday's call may have represented fulfillment of that pledge. Angelos disagreed.

"I really don't have anything to say about that," Angelos said last night. "You know the story. He said he would call us back. He didn't call. We think we made a fair and reasonable offer. If he has chosen not to accept it, that's his prerogative."

source - Baltimore Sun, Nov. 30, 2000

Does anyone think Angelos would have matched 6/$87.5M?

[DrungoHazewood]

I wasn't talking about Palmer at all.

I was talking about pitching wins.

You a pitching win proponent all of a sudden?

You made a comment that you're not impressed by Mussina's win total because his teams were good. While pitching wins are a poor measure of quality, especially in the short term, it's pretty darned hard to win 280 games in modern baseball without being very good for a very long time. Palmer was specifically referenced in the post you quoted.

[weams]

source - Baltimore Sun, Nov. 30, 2000

Does anyone think Angelos would have matched 6/$87.5M?

I do not. I don't.

[Can_of_corn]

source - Baltimore Sun, Nov. 30, 2000

Does anyone think Angelos would have matched 6/$87.5M?

I have said numerous times that I don't think he would have.

Do you think the Yankees would have actually pulled the deal if Mike said "I will let you know in the morning I have to talk it over with the wife."?

There is no middle ground here for me.

You give your word and then you break your word I am not going to have much respect for you.

Folks should be more careful when giving their word.

[Can_of_corn]

You made a comment that you're not impressed by Mussina's win total because his teams were good. While pitching wins are a poor measure of quality, especially in the short term, it's pretty darned hard to win 280 games in modern baseball without being very good for a very long time. Palmer was specifically referenced in the post you quoted.

Actually I said I didn't like using his winning percentage as part of his argument.

You need to put the winning percentage in context, which those citing it never seem to get around doing.

[TonySoprano]

I have said numerous times that I don't think he would have.

Do you think the Yankees would have actually pulled the deal if Mike said "I will let you know in the morning I have to talk it over with the wife."?

There is no middle ground here for me.

You give your word and then you break your word I am not going to have much respect for you.

Folks should be more careful when giving their word.

We don't give pitchers five year deals.

Angelos made it clear his offer wasn't going to improve, especially not by another $9.5M.