Will Mora Be This Season's OH Tejada?

[Fairfax Bird]

Are those better or worse than unproductive no-hitters?

I noticed Belanger made an error in that game. That guy had no glove.

Unproductive walks and hits. This is funny.

[Maverick2143]

Sorry, but in my definition it was unproductive as it did not lead to at least a run being produced. Of course it wasn't Roberts fault and the view of this particular stat is not to place fault or blame but to view an action in terms of how it affected the scoring of runs in the game, which is ultimately the most important stat of all. His triple and steal padded his own stats only, unfortunately in this case and his teamates were terrible in that they couldn't even produce a productive out. I agree it was certainly not the fault of Roberts but this stat is viewed in its effect on the game. In the case of this particular triple and steal by Roberts it had no impact on the game as no run was scored from it.

Well then I guess the problem is one of symantics. I and others are viewing each individual AB as a seperate event to be judged whereas you are viewing the overall result as a collective event.

[Old#5fan]

Well then I guess the problem is one of symantics. I and others are viewing each individual AB as a seperate event to be judged whereas you are viewing the overall result as a collective event.

Yes, I am viewing them in the context of each game and their impact on the result (ultimately the Won-Loss record) while apparently you and most stats enamored folks tend to focus not so much on who wins or loses the game but how each singular player peforms based on individual statistical analysis. So much for the team philosophy eh? Just call me old school, I care more about the W-L record than indidividual stats many of which are meaningless padded numbers that have no impact on the particular game they were attained.

[Fairfax Bird]

Yes, I am viewing them in the context of each game and their impact on the result (ultimately the Won-Loss record) while apparently you and most stats enamored folks tend to focus not so much on who wins or loses the game but how each singular player peforms based on individual statistical analysis. So much for the team philosophy eh? Just call me old school, I care more about the W-L record than indidividual stats many of which are meaningless padded numbers that have no impact on the particular game they were attained.

I'm not stat guy, but I have a feeling this will make a few people's heads explode.

Seriously, you have to credit people for their individual efforts even if their efforts didn't lead to a run. If a pitcher goes 3-20 but has an ERA of 2.00, was it an unproductive season?

[Maverick2143]

Yes, I am viewing them in the context of each game and their impact on the result (ultimately the Won-Loss record) while apparently you and most stats enamored folks tend to focus not so much on who wins or loses the game but how each singular player peforms based on individual statistical analysis. So much for the team philosophy eh? Just call me old school, I care more about the W-L record than indidividual stats many of which are meaningless padded numbers that have no impact on the particular game they were attained.

Well so much for a reasonable discussion. We are back to lumping people into groups and making over generalizations. I tried and actually succeeded in understanding and learning something from your point of view, too bad you don't want to take the time to try to do the same for mine.

For the record I am not enamored with stats. I have played the game at a very high level and I use those experiences in addition to the knowledge I have learned from stat savy people (Drungo, 1970, Tom Tango) to formulate my opinions.

[ChaosLex]

I give this thread another two pages before it's locked. Haha.

[Mark Carver]

I'm not stat guy, but I have a feeling this will make a few people's heads explode.

Seriously, you have to credit people for their individual efforts even if their efforts didn't lead to a run. If a pitcher goes 3-20 but has an ERA of 2.00, was it an unproductive season?

Come, everybody knows that Rodrigo Lopez was a much better pitcher than Roger Clemens in 2005. Lopez had won 3 more games than Clemens did...

Clemens - 13-8

Lopez - 15-12

[Old#5fan]

Well so much for a reasonable discussion. We are back to lumping people into groups and making over generalizations. I tried and actually succeeded in understanding and learning something from your point of view, too bad you don't want to take the time to try to do the same for mine.

For the record I am not enamored with stats. I have played the game at a very high level and I use those experiences in addition to the knowledge I have learned from stat savy people (Drungo, 1970, Tom Tango) to formulate my opinions.

I apologize if you took me that way, as I have nothing but the utmost respect for any individual who had the talent and ability to play the game at a very high level. I had someone try to take me to task for stating I never made a non-throwing fielding error while playing first base. They simply didn't find that credible. What they didn't bother to ask or allow me to explain my entire baseball playing career at any level only spanned about a hundred games over the course of 5 seasons where I got meaningful playing time and I never played above the high school level. I would certainly defer and even bow to their knowledge of playing the game. I am an idiot in comparison to anyone who has even minor league experience and freely admit that. However, when it comes to stats experts trying to convince me of things that I know are practically true, then I have to draw the line.

[Flip217]

Jebus tap-dancing Crikeys! Back to this again, are we?!

Productive outs, non-productive walks, what the meaning of "is" is, does the pope wear a funny hat...

Gah!

I promised myself I wouldn't drink before 5:00pm today. I almost made it!

[DrungoHazewood]

I apologize if you took me that way, as I have nothing but the utmost respect for any individual who had the talent and ability to play the game at a very high level. I had someone try to take me to task for stating I never made a non-throwing fielding error while playing first base. The simply didn't find that credible. What they didn't bother to ask or allow me to explain my entire baseball playing career at any level only spanned about a hundred games over the course of 5 seasons where I got meaningful playing time and I never played above the high school level. I would certainly defer and even bow to their knowledge of playing the game. I am an idiot in comparison to anyone who has even minor league experience and freely admit that. However, when it comes to stats experts trying to convince me of things that I know are practically true, then I have to draw the line.

This is just priceless. Bravo!

[Old#5fan]

This is just priceless. Bravo!

Glad to oblige.

[Mackus]

Typical non-stats guy - thinks the difference between 15 wins and 13 wins is three wins. :002_stongue:

(NOTE: I have no idea if you're a stats guy or not, just couldn't pass on the opportunity for a free shot. )

This is awesome.

[Fairfax Bird]

I'll tell you that Mora's defense was horrific tonight!! A couple of excellent plays.

[MikeAD]

I'll tell you that Mora's defense was horrific tonight!! A couple of excellent plays.

Yeah, those two plays are what kept it a two run game for two innings. Great Job Melvin!

[Frobby]

I have to ask you, OldFan -- how did you like Mora's defense last night? We've seen a lot of plays like that the last two years, which is why I can tolerate his weakness at charging slow rollers.