Will Mora Be This Season's OH Tejada?

[Mackus]

It would have been a better experiment than LH is.

I dont think so.

At least Hernandez will be very good defensively. Mora would be the worst defensive SS in baseball (much like Hernandez is the worst offensive SS, if not player). Mora would probably outhit Hernandez by 150 OPS points or so (~.725 to ~.575), but I'm honestly not sure he'd even field well enough to justify that level of dominance offensively.

Both are pathetic options, but Hernandez is at least a SS despite being barely a pitcher with the bat. Putting Mora at SS would make about as much sense as putting Huff there. Or another similar suggestion of putting Moore there. Or like the suggestion of switching Rowell to SS. It just doesn't make an ounce of sense.

[BaltimoreTerp]

One thing about you I must admire. Your never ending desire to finda way for Hernandez not to play SS. You would over turn any rock, run any race, fly a million miles to find someone other than Luis.

Is Luis Hernandez+Melvin Mora at third better overall then Scott Moore+Melvin Mora at shortstop? Combining offense AND defense?

I don't know, but I doubt it would be too far off, and I think i would much rather see Moore in the lineup then Hernandez.

[El Gordo]

Is Luis Hernandez+Melvin Mora at third better overall then Scott Moore+Melvin Mora at shortstop? Combining offense AND defense?

I don't know, but I doubt it would be too far off, and I think i would much rather see Moore in the lineup then Hernandez.

I really don't understand all this LH hysteria. If we had kept Tejada he would be about +5 W's on offense and -2W's on defense to LH . So on a team that everyone expects to lose 100 games who cares about 3 more W's? And that is about the best case scenario for an offensive SS. We certainly aren't going to find a stop gap SS who puts up .800 OPS. So until we can trade for a Tulo type SS, why not make do with LH?

[oriole_way]

Enlighten me to examples as I am void of any detailed recollection of such instances.

I'm curious, since there is no stat for Bonehead Plays for Mora(BPM) can you list the ones he made last year. I'm sure you've been keeping copious notes.

1. Mora's interference play yesterday.

2. Didn't Payton get upset at Mora when he stole 3rd base in the 9th inning last year when the Orioles were down by 2 runs. That was against Toronto. While some may argue that Payton overreacted, I still think that it was a dubious decision on Mora's part, since his run didn't mean squat.

3. Two years ago, Mora was thrown out at home trying to score on a shallow pop up to LF that the ss caught in the 9th inning. This was also against Toronto, and again the Orioles were down by 2 runs. That was flat out dumb.

4. Then there was Melvin Mora's bunt attempt with Patterson at third base with 2 out against Oakland in the 9th inning last year. Patterson was so surprised by the attempt that he wondered if he missed a sign (he didn't). Again, it was at least a dubious decision.

5. There was another game against Oakland last year, when after a ground ball deflected off his glove (it was ruled an error), Mora just stood there, neither going after the ball nor covering third base. That was in a day game against Oakland last year.

6. There was another game two years ago against the White Sox (around the 4th of July) when he was on 2nd base in the 9th inning (nobody out) of a game that the Orioles were losing by 3 runs. Conine hit a double off the left center field wall. Mora got a horrible read on the ball and went back to 2nd base to tag. When the ball hit off the wall, he tried to scurry home and the throw beat him by 10-15 feet. Luckily the catcher dropped the ball. Again, another flat out dumb decision.

There have been other examples that may have been less obvious, like when he tried to score the tying run against the Angels in the 9th inning on a shallow fly ball hit to Vlad Guerrerro, but was unfortunately thrown out to end the game. That was the play where he injured his foot last year. At least in that case, you could understand that he represented the tying run, although I think it was an unwise gamble.

And that's just off the top of my head. I've mostly listed baserunning gaffes because those are easy to analyze, but there are other subtle things that I don't think Mora does well either, but it would be probably be pointless to mention those, especially when these examples should suffice.

[El Gordo]

1. Mora's interference play yesterday.

2. Didn't Payton get upset at Mora when he stole 3rd base in the 9th inning last year when the Orioles were down by 2 runs. That was against Toronto. While some may argue that Payton overreacted, I still think that it was a dubious decision on Mora's part, since his run didn't mean squat.

3. Two years ago, Mora was thrown out at home trying to score on a shallow pop up to LF that the ss caught in the 9th inning. This was also against Toronto, and again the Orioles were down by 2 runs. That was flat out dumb.

4. Then there was Melvin Mora's bunt attempt with Patterson at third base with 2 out against Oakland in the 9th inning last year. Patterson was so surprised by the attempt that he wondered if he missed a sign (he didn't). Again, it was at least a dubious decision.

5. There was another game against Oakland last year, when after a ground ball deflected off his glove (it was ruled an error), Mora just stood there, neither going after the ball nor covering third base. That was in a day game against Oakland last year.

6. There was another game two years ago against the White Sox (around the 4th of July) when he was on 2nd base in the 9th inning (nobody out) of a game that the Orioles were losing by 3 runs. Conine hit a double off the left center field wall. Mora got a horrible read on the ball and went back to 2nd base to tag. When the ball hit off the wall, he tried to scurry home and the throw beat him by 10-15 feet. Luckily the catcher dropped the ball. Again, another flat out dumb decision.

There have been other examples that may have been less obvious, like when he tried to score the tying run against the Angels in the 9th inning on a shallow fly ball hit to Vlad Guerrerro, but was unfortunately thrown out to end the game. That was the play where he injured his foot last year. At least in that case, you could understand that he represented the tying run, although I think it was an unwise gamble.

And that's just off the top of my head. I've mostly listed baserunning gaffes because those are easy to analyze, but there are other subtle things that I don't think Mora does well either, but it would be probably be pointless to mention those, especially when these examples should suffice.

Sorry, but they don't sufice for me. I would agree tha #'s 3 and 5 are clear MBP's but arguments can and have been made against the others. Even accepting the 6 examples you give, considering all the plays Mora has been involved in over the last 2 seasons I would'nt think that is so many. I think some people just have a grudge against Melvin for a variety of subjective reasons that have little or nothing to do with his merits as a ballplayer.

[Moose Milligan]

Then there's the contingent that includes me who's just more apt to trust things you can quantify more than things you can't. The unquantifiable things are so often used as a BS dump (i.e. the tendency of fans to assume that intangibles and unquantifiable things make up for measurable deficiencies in their favorite players) that we've learned to be skeptical.

Well, well, well. If your post is sincere than we actuallly agree on something! Stop the presses!

Just like Tejada bungling routine DP balls where he gets one out instead of two there is no stat on Mora bungling on the bases and he also doesn't always get an error on bungling many slow rollers that other more alert thirdbaseman routinely handle, so Mora appears to be a better defensive third baseman (at least stats-wise) than he truly is. His baserunning blunders and mental errors are also not statistically measured either. All in all, I view Mora as the next guy on the runway behind Tejada as either needing to go or be moved to the OF.

It's hard to quantify how much something means when something can't be quantified, now isn't it?

Intangibles do count for something...but I'm not about to overlook OPS for them, know what I mean?

[Sports Guy]

Is Luis Hernandez+Melvin Mora at third better overall then Scott Moore+Melvin Mora at shortstop? Combining offense AND defense?

I don't know, but I doubt it would be too far off, and I think i would much rather see Moore in the lineup then Hernandez.

This is my thinking....Well said.

El Gordo...You asked why all the hysteria around LH...To be honest, I have a much larger problem with AM not getting a better option than LH himself.

As you and others have so accurately said, having LH out there means 3-5 more losses...Big deal..In fact, it may help us get the better draft pick.

[rolliefingers]

This process nearly killed my interest in these boards last season...please, please, please let it go.

Seconded....

[Mark Carver]

1. Mora's interference play yesterday.

Trembley didn't see it that way... what does he know, he's only been in the game for 23 years.

From Baltimore Sun, dated 4/1/2008 -

Navarro rose out of his crouch and cocked his arm but couldn't release the ball. Inning over. "He thought Melvin impaired Navarro's opportunity to throw the ball," Trembley said. "I didn't think there was any intent, but it's Bob's judgment, and he thought there was."

[TWpj]

The better question is this.....

OldFan, are you going to waste a lot of our time on Mora this year like you did with Tejada last year?

Tejada was last year's Tejada in part because of you and how ridiculous you were.

He'll do it to fill the time between bashing Kyle Boller all over the internet.

[Gurgi]

Trembley didn't see it that way... what does he know, he's only been in the game for 23 years.

From Baltimore Sun, dated 4/1/2008 -

Trembley doesnt throw people under the bus. You cant expect him to dog a player in public. At least not without it being vague.

[Fairfax Bird]

As we all know, Tejada was very much a subject of friction on this site last year because of his sloppy defense (to put it mildly). Now after watching Mora blunder yet again another play at third where he needs to charge the ball, (a play that 99% of all even average defensive ML third baseman make with ease) I have to wonder. I personally am getting tired of watching him blow those type plays. He does fine on hard hit balls, maybe even above average but he is pitiful at making those slow roller type plays. I recall watching Brooks Robinson scoop up those slow rollers with one hand and all in one motion firing to first. It was like he had a magnet in his hand and the ball was iron he was so reliable. Same with Decinces, and Cal when they played third. Even Ray Knight when he was here made that play with ease, but Mora makes me cringe on those type of plays.

I truly think this should be his last year at third. If his shoddy play continues Trembley/McPhail should consider taking action during the season. He (like Tejada) either needs to be traded or moved back to leftfield. I would move Moore to third and Scott to DH or first base. I know this may seem like I am jumping the gun but I watched Melvin have this problem most of last season as well. It certainly is not a new phenomenon with him.

On a positive note did anyone see LH out there diving for balls? That is something we have not seen from our shortstop since he was named Mike Bordick. A very welcome sight IMO.

Not very fair to compare a 3B year old Mora (who didn't play the position regurlarly until 32 to Brooks Robinson, Cal Ripken, and Doug Decinces. Just not fair. He is an average 3B. We can hope for him having a decent year and getting traded to a team in need.

[El Gordo]

This is my thinking....Well said.

El Gordo...You asked why all the hysteria around LH...To be honest, I have a much larger problem with AM not getting a better option than LH himself.

As you and others have so accurately said, having LH out there means 3-5 more losses...Big deal..In fact, it may help us get the better draft pick.

Unless your saying that AM should have traded for one of Hu Brignac, Littlebridge, Andrus, etc., I don't see why you have a problem with him.

Any stop gap upgrade over LH would amount to less than 3-5 W's.

.

[Mark Carver]

Trembley doesnt throw people under the bus. You can expect him to dog a player in public. At least not without it being vague.

He sure got on Bedard's case last year about not talking to the press...

[BaltimoreTerp]

Unless your saying that AM should have traded for one of Hu Brignac, Littlebridge, Andrus, etc., I don't see why you have a problem with him.

Oh God, HERE we go...