Who's our 5th starter if we don't add anyone else

[Bahama O's Fan]

Any chance we tough it out with what we've got, see where we are and try to trade for one later?

[ReclaimTheCrown]

Why does Dan bother telling us he will add a good starter just to feign surprise at their cost?

I do agree that Duquette's reactions to the cost of starting pitching don't sit particularly well with me. First, he is a baseball executive whose job it is to understand the market, so he should not be excused for the same sticker shock reaction that a casual fan may have. Second, I don't think the contracts given out to most free agent starters were that wildly out of line with the projections by industry experts (though maybe on a guy like Greinke), so they shouldn't surprise him all that much.

Agree that it's a bit off putting and belittling to knowledgable fans that know he should know better.

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[Can_of_corn]

A- is just relative. We still will have a 1st rd pick and three 2nd's in the draft.

B- Every FA cost something. People have criticized Wieters, Davis, Trumbo and O'day's deals as being overpays. Only Kim is seen as a bargain. In three months we're all going to forget about the difference between a guy making 8 million a year compared to a guy making 10 million a year.

C- Coincides with a declining ERA. His K rate is falling but is GB rate is rising. Which the stats show that he's throwing more two seamers and less four seamers. (Sinkerballers are good)

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=8173&position=P

I'm not an out queen. I'll take them in any type. You don't always need the big punchout. Sometimes the little dribbler to second base does the job. Groundball's are preferable with our defense. Gallardo went from the NL central to pitching in Texas and his ERA went down. That's how we should judge him. He's the best option left. Give him 4/44 or so and lets go win 90 games.

A- It isn't relative. The 14th pick has value and that value isn't diminished by the O's also having other picks, in fact you could make an argument that the value of the 14th pick is increased when you factor in the additional pool money.

B- It is a matter of budget, do the Orioles, after retaining Wieters, O'Day and Davis have enough budget room for Gallardo? It is rather naive to expect ownership to spend over the allocated budget.

C- Simply being able to induce ground balls does not guarantee success in the majors. The ability to miss bats is the surest indicator of success. Also Gallardo was 14th in LD% allowed last season, at 23.68%, line drives become hits at roughly a 70% rate.

I also disagree that we should be judging pitchers by their ERA.

[Rene88]

This seems like the exception that proves the rule. The O's had nearly unprecedented (for them, at least) starting pitching stability in 2014, with only six pitchers getting more than one start. But as connja said, that very rarely happens. The O's normally need around 9-10 different starters during the course of the season, and they're lacking that depth right now.

We saw that lack of depth in the second half of 2015, when the O's had to keep sending an injured Miguel Gonzalez and an ineffective Mike Wright to make starts because they had literally no other options.[/QUO

You should pin this post. You clearly get it and I thought DD did too. One thing he was dramatically better on (vs. AM) was depth and anticipating injuries but this offseason is scaring me on the starting pitching depth front.

There is still time left, but you are spot on sir.

[weams]

This seems like the exception that proves the rule. The O's had nearly unprecedented (for them, at least) starting pitching stability in 2014, with only six pitchers getting more than one start. But as connja said, that very rarely happens. The O's normally need around 9-10 different starters during the course of the season, and they're lacking that depth right now.

We saw that lack of depth in the second half of 2015, when the O's had to keep sending an injured Miguel Gonzalez and an ineffective Mike Wright to make starts because they had literally no other options.

You should pin this post. You clearly get it and I thought DD did too. One thing he was dramatically better on (vs. AM) was depth and anticipating injuries but this offseason is scaring me on the starting pitching depth front.

There is still time left, but you are spot on sir.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/01/indians-agree-to-two-year-deal-with-josh-tomlin.html

This ludacris.

[Creamsicle]

SIAP but our 5th starter won't be needed 'til April 10, so, knowing Buck it's entirely possible that the S5 doesn't even break camp with the team.

[BohKnowsBmore]

Why does Dan bother telling us he will add a good starter just to feign surprise at their cost?

I do agree that Duquette's reactions to the cost of starting pitching don't sit particularly well with me. First, he is a baseball executive whose job it is to understand the market, so he should not be excused for the same sticker shock reaction that a casual fan may have. Second, I don't think the contracts given out to most free agent starters were that wildly out of line with the projections by industry experts (though maybe on a guy like Greinke), so they shouldn't surprise him all that much.

Agree that it's a bit off putting and belittling to knowledgable fans that know he should know better.

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http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/151135-Dan-Duquette-is-not-shocked-by-anything-The-Numbers-that-some-pitchers-got-were-quot-Staggering-quot?highlight=justD

Dan Duquette is not shocked by anything. The Numbers that some pitchers got were "Staggering"

[Bahama O's Fan]

SIAP but our 5th starter won't be needed 'til April 10, so, knowing Buck it's entirely possible that the S5 doesn't even break camp with the team.

I was wondering how long it would be and then how often we would need one for the first month or two of the season.

[backwardsk]

I was wondering how long it would be and then how often we would need one for the first month or two of the season.

I'm really bad at this, so someone should check my work. But if they keep 1-4 on regular rest, we'd need the fifth guy on 4/10, 4/15, 4/23, and 4/28 in April.

[Rene88]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/01/indians-agree-to-two-year-deal-with-josh-tomlin.html

This ludacris.

Then he shouldn't be trading away pitching prospects I guess.

[weams]

BTW, Mark Trumbo through age 29, 7.9 WAR, Cruz through age 29? 8.1

[stef]

DD's diversification object lesson

Here's an imperfect list of DD's moves by year to bolster the ML starting pitching or, in most cases, provide ML depth. He made a lot of moves in 2012 and many of them paid off (Chen, Gonzalez, Hammel, and Saunders). He also tried several guys in 2013, none of which were effective. Since then the only move like this of interest was Santana and that was short-circuited when Santana blew out his achilles.

2012

12/8/11

Los Angeles Dodgers Traded LHP Dana Eveland to Baltimore Orioles; Norfolk Tides Traded LF Tyler Henson to Albuquerque Isotopes and Delmarva Shorebirds Traded LHP Jarret Martin to Rancho Cucamonga Quakes.

12/14/11

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent LHP Tsuyoshi Wada.

2/6/12

Baltimore Orioles traded RHP Jeremy Guthrie to Colorado Rockies for RHP Jason Hammel and RHP Matt Lindstrom.

1/10/12

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent LHP Wei-Yin Chen.

2/28/12

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent RHP Miguel Gonzalez to a minor league contract.

3/21/12

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent LHP Dontrelle Willis to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.

4/12/12

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent RHP Joel Pineiro to a minor league contract.

6/9/12

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent LHP Jamie Moyer to a minor league contract.

8/26/12

Arizona Diamondbacks traded cash and LHP Joe Saunders to Baltimore Orioles for Player To Be Named Later and RHP Matt Lindstrom.

8/31/12

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent LHP Randy Wolf.

2013

2/15/13

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent RHP Jair Jurrjens to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.

3/29/13

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent RHP Freddy Garcia to a minor league contract.

4/4/13

Baltimore Orioles claimed RHP Josh Stinson off waivers from Oakland Athletics.

2014

12/23/13

Baltimore Orioles claimed RHP Liam Hendriks off waivers from Chicago Cubs.

2/17/14

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent Suk-min Yoon. (Hendriks DFA)

3/4/14

Baltimore Orioles signed free agent LHP Johan Santana to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training.

2015

DD did not sign anyone of the above type. He did acquire several pitchers who may provide depth in the near future ( e.g. Gunkel, Doyle, Lee).

2016

10/20/15

Baltimore Orioles claimed Vance Worley off waivers from Pittsburgh Pirates.

2/4/16

San Diego Padres traded RHP Odrisamer Despaigne to Baltimore Orioles for RHP Jean Cosme.

[Scotto]

How about Jiminez?

[srock]

Can we afford the roster spot for 2 starters in 1 spot? If a guy is optioned, they have to stay down for ten days, right? A rotating set of optioned starters would really take three guys, right? That could get interesting, BTW, in that it would open up additional bench space if you immediately optioned a starter after his start and didn't call up guys 2 and 3 until their starts.

This has been the strategy for 3 years now. I don't see it changing.

There is no 5th starter.

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[stef]

How about Jiminez?

A different beast to me.