Arrieta Posts

[abbott]

Or that Arrieta's reticence in simply trusting the O's staff and buying into the changes caused the issue.

Can be spun either way.

Me, I tend to fall on the side of, do it the way the guys are paying you want you to do it.

What have the Orioles done with young pitching in the last 20 years to give Arrieta confidence that his livelihood is safe in Oriole hands?

Trust and respect are earned. Arrieta trusted and respected his coaches before and after the Orioles. I'd say it's not Arrieta's problem

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[foxfield]

Seems to me like the best dev staffs work with players in their comfort zone. But, hey, different strokes and all.

EDIT -- For whatever it's worth, I've never heard your version of the story from anyone in the industry with an opinion on the matter. Anecdotal, but I've heard from half a dozen people across multiple orgs that the issue was a Baltimore dev. issue.

There is nearly 20 years of history to suggest that the O's have struggled developmentally and while there have been several different people in charge, it seems difficult to explain by just bad luck.

[Stotle]

Noted.

Would you say Jake ever fully bought into the O's approach?

If he had could it have worked for him?

I'm not sure how to define that. If the approach is not producing results for him and he gets frustrated and reverts, is that not buying in? I honestly don't know how to measure what you're asking. I don't think he was doing his own thing, so I have to assume he was at least trying to do what Baltimore wanted him to do, no?

[weams]

filler.

[Can_of_corn]

I'm not sure how to define that. If the approach is not producing results for him and he gets frustrated and reverts, is that not buying in? I honestly don't know how to measure what you're asking. I don't think he was doing his own thing, so I have to assume he was at least trying to do what Baltimore wanted him to do, no?

From what Weams just posted it doesn't sound like he was buying in. I don't know.

Might be the military in me but when I'm told what to do by my employer, if I think it is stupid, I respectfully tell them why I think it is stupid. If they still want me to do it after that then I give full effort their way.

[Stotle]

From what Weams just posted it doesn't sound like he was buying in. I don't know.

Might be the military in me but when I'm told what to do by my employer, if I think it is stupid, I respectfully tell them why I think it is stupid. If they still want me to do it after that then I give full effort their way.

So you are saying you believe he was just ignoring what Baltimore wanted him to do, and that's why he struggled?

[Can_of_corn]

So you are saying you believe he was just ignoring what Baltimore wanted him to do, and that's why he struggled?

I believe (and I certainly don't know) that while he was doing as he was told he was not committed to the program they had for him.

I am not claiming that he refused, or that he was insubordinate, just that he didn't buy into the changes in such a way as to fully allow them to be effective.

I think that there was probably some low level of constant push-back.

I am perfectly willing to accept the thinking that even if that was the case that Baltimore would have been better off bending in this circumstance.

Obviously the end results of Baltimore's approach speak for themselves.

[Can_of_corn]

I believe (and I certainly don't know) that while he was doing as he was told he was not committed to the program they had for him.

I am not claiming that he refused, or that he was insubordinate, just that he didn't buy into the changes in such a way as to fully allow them to be effective.

I think that there was probably some low level of constant push-back.

I am perfectly willing to accept the thinking that even if that was the case that Baltimore would have been better off bending in this circumstance.

Obviously the end results of Baltimore's approach speak for themselves.

That is all complete and total speculation on my part, a construct of very little concrete evidence. A tower made of gossamer.

[abbott]

From what Weams just posted it doesn't sound like he was buying in. I don't know.

Might be the military in me but when I'm told what to do by my employer, if I think it is stupid, I respectfully tell them why I think it is stupid. If they still want me to do it after that then I give full effort their way.

When he did what the Cubs told him to do he won a Cy Young award. Looks like he can follow instructions.

Do you think the Cubs are as reverential about fleecing the Orioles as some O's fans are about fleecing the Mariners over Adam Jones

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[Moose Milligan]

No one can tell me otherwise that the Orioles tried to have him do things their way and the Cubs let him get back to his basics.

His failure here rests strictly on the shoulders of the pitching coaches and members of organization at the time.

I'm not a baseball coach, far from it. But I think one of the big things to remember in life is that you never forget who brought you to the dance. That's to say you never forget what got you to where you are and don't stray from it. Sure, you tweak and change some things and see what you can improve but if Arrieta wants to throw across his body a little bit, f'ing let him. If Bundy loves his cutter, let him throw it.

You want your coaches to work WITH your players, not against them. It seems so damn simple, why would you tell any player to stop doing what they love to do or what makes them successful? My way or the highway almost never works. It breeds resentment. Put your players in a position to make them successful by allowing them to do the things that they're good at while helping them improve on deficiencies.

Flip it to offense. Would anyone in their right mind ever tell Wade Boggs or Tony Gwynn not to go to the opposite field? Would anyone ever tell Jeff Bagwell "Dude, that crouch looks ridiculous. And you have to step towards the baseball, not away from it. Do it my way"

No.

So why would you tell a pitcher the same thing?

[weams]

I believe (and I certainly don't know) that while he was doing as he was told he was not committed to the program they had for him.

I am not claiming that he refused, or that he was insubordinate, just that he didn't buy into the changes in such a way as to fully allow them to be effective.

I think that there was probably some low level of constant push-back.

I am perfectly willing to accept the thinking that even if that was the case that Baltimore would have been better off bending in this circumstance.

Obviously the end results of Baltimore's approach speak for themselves.

He also had a very weird soft tissue bones spur like object in the elbow. That he was going to have removed, then not, then again.The Orioles Drs. wanted it handled early, but both Jake and Boras decided differently until it became absolutely necessary.

It is possible that the slack ligament issue caused his poor performance in 2013. It is also possible that the mechanical isssues andlater changes are all related to this.

"believed to be a fibrous growth rather than a bone spur"

[BohKnowsBmore]

I believe (and I certainly don't know) that while he was doing as he was told he was not committed to the program they had for him.

I am not claiming that he refused, or that he was insubordinate, just that he didn't buy into the changes in such a way as to fully allow them to be effective.

I think that there was probably some low level of constant push-back.

I am perfectly willing to accept the thinking that even if that was the case that Baltimore would have been better off bending in this circumstance.

Obviously the end results of Baltimore's approach speak for themselves.

Incredibly anecdotal, but I remember a series of tweets that were relayed around here, I believe early in the 2013 season when he had been sent down. Actually, I just found it...

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/132288-Jake-Arrieta-goes-all-Jen-Royle-on-twitter-Is-this-why-he-fails-Little-self-control

I don't know how much can be interpreted or taken from this, but it does seem that he was a bit full of himself during his time with the O's. I don't think it's that far of a leap to believe that the O's "giving up" on him served as a bit of a wake-up call. To be fair, the guy engaging himself is definitely an asshole.

[Norfolk orioles]

Makes Rick Adair sound like a total buffoon for his handling of our young pitchers and for potentially destroying them as starters by changing things so much.

Maybe, given what we've seen from Arrieta, we should consider having Britton start again with the same mechanics he is using now.

Something to consider based off of this article. Britton's horrendous results as a starter could all be because the pitching coaches screwed him up the same as Jake.

Opinions? Thoughts?

http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/28/jake-arrieta-chicago-cubs-profile

[Tx Oriole]

Makes Rick Adair sound like a total buffoon for his handling of our young pitchers and for potentially destroying them as starters by changing things so much.

Maybe, given what we've seen from Arrieta, we should consider having Britton start again with the same mechanics he is using now.

Something to consider based off of this article. Britton's horrendous results as a starter could all be because the pitching coaches screwed him up the same as Jake.

Opinions? Thoughts?

http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/28/jake-arrieta-chicago-cubs-profile

Jake got chances. He didnt pitch well in Baltimore. To me it's past history. Time to

move on. IMO

[Can_of_corn]

Haven't read the article yet but about Britton being a starter...

He hurt his shoulder.

The strike zone was higher.