Arrieta Posts

[Sessh]

Arrieta was bad because he was being micromanaged and being asked to do things he couldn't do. It never occurred to anyone to just let him try it his way and see what happened? The solution was simple and the fact

that the Orioles could not see a Cy Young pitcher shows just how bad this organization is at evaluating talent. I was against the trade because I did see something special. I can remember countless times when Jake

would absolutely dominate for the first three innings and I mean no hit stuff. Absolutely unhittable and like 6-7 strikeouts and then, inexplicably, the wheels would come off for seemingly no reason at all probably because

someone was trying to make him do something other than what he was doing. He did this enough times for me to see that he was going to be really good and would throw at least one no hitter. I was shocked that we

gave up on him and not shocked at all when his performance suddenly reached that level as soon as he was dealt somewhere that left him alone to do what was comfortable for him. How could the Orioles miss such a

simple solution? He could have done the same thing in Baltimore> I don't buy the argument that he wouldn't have if he was given the same latitude and trust that he was given in Chicago.

[LookitsPuck]

Isn't the Arrieta deal cancelled out by the Chris Davis deal. Or the JJ Hardy deal. Or the Jones/Tillman deal. Do we have to dwell on the negatives? We've had a lot of trades work in our favor. It's only natural that some will explode in our face.

Also, Arrieta was done here. He was terrible and only getting worse. Anyone who says we were foolish to trade him is writing revisionist history.

It's still a sore spot because we still can't develop starters. Something is still dramatically wrong.

[O's84]

Never mention the name Arrieta on this message board ever again.

[CaptainRedbeard]

Time to plate. Removal of the cutter. Buck's inability to hold on to pitching coaches. Rotating pitching coaches. All why we suck at developing starters.

The time to the plate thing doesn't bother me so much. They may be too strict about it, but it actually is very important to emphasize for holding runners. It's the way that the Orioles treat cutters for young pitchers that drives me up the wall.

BTW Bundy isn't throwing his cutter. Hasn't thrown a single one all year. Just going to throw that out there.

[tntoriole]

Arrieta was pitching near 7 ERA at the time. He had no options left. And Jake's confidence was in such a bad place that I believe he literally could not have pitched any longer for us in 2013 without a total and complete meltdown. Putting him in the pen would have moved out someone who was actually contributing. No, the fact is that the trade for an established veteran starter in the midst of a playoff chase was a calculated gamble. It turned out badly, but I had absolutely no problem with the deal when it occurred. Now, sure, yes, but then, no. It happens. At least we flipped Clevenger for Trumbo- maybe if Trumbo has an all world season and we beat Jake in the World Series and we will feel better. Unlike trades of Hader and Tarpley and Davies which I opposed at the time, I think DD made a reasonable call with the situation that he faced. In life you don't get to make those kinds of decisions after seeing how it turns out two years later. You have to make the choice without knowing the future.

[crawjo]

Arrieta is apparently now the greatest pitcher in baseball history. The fact that this began to happen almost as soon as he left Baltimore is very depressing. I don't like talking about it. In my mind, Arrieta is already a Hall of Famer. He's going to be like Koufax, having six or so dominant seasons with a no-hitter in each one. I'm already resigned to it.

[atomic]

We got Trumbo out of the deal. Perhaps Trumbo extends and has a long and successful Orioles career.

[Filmstudy]

There was literally NO ONE who thought it was a bad idea to give up on Dennis Martinez when the Orioles did. He was older, but otherwise a great comp for Arrieta in terms of recent performance with the Orioles and what the O's got in return.

And if you want to claim you thought it was bad for the Orioles to give up on Martinez, that will require a polygraph.

[Il BuonO]

Arrieta was pitching near 7 ERA at the time.

Citing ERA exclusively is flawed way of justifying the trade. First of all, it was over a measly 23 IP. Secondly, other indicators like FIP and SO were far more favorable if you wanted to consider the sample size.

The Cubs sent Jake down after he made a couple starts to get straightened out, so he wasn't always lights out with them. He could have benefited from the same time with the Orioles if they would have just allowed him to throw in a motion he was comfortable with executing.

[tntoriole]

Excellent article by Tom Verducci in SI about Jake's transformation. It is pretty clear that some of it was changing parts of his pitching mechanics, going back to the cutter, crossfire, etc. But there was also a significant amount of change in his conditioning including an obsession with Pilates, strengthening his core and balance, which he started after 2013. He also acknowledges that he continued to work on his four seamer which he can now throw so exquisitely, but acknowledges he couldn't do that even in 2014 (after trade). "Arrieta's cutter has become dominant because of his increased command and use of the two-seam fastball, which breaks in the opposite direction. The two-seamer has become so good that Arrieta rarely uses his four-seamer, the staple of his youth, which has less movement. I trust how much my ball moves, says Arrieta, who cut his walk rate in half last year. I can throw it at you or this far off the plate and have it end up on the black. That's where I kind of went to the next level. I knew what all my pitches were doing. Even in '14, I didn't have that ability."

http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/03/28/jake-arrieta-chicago-cubs-profile

[Cavspider]

Wrong Davis to compare in trades IMO.

With reclamation change of scenery type trades you need to compare Chris Davis to Arrieta. Crush need a change and we got him cheap and he has delivered power beyond our hopes and solved first base.

Arrieta need a change, the Cubs got him and all worked out for them.

You win some, you lose some. And you can't win them all. But it evens out.

So, think of Crush when you see Arrieta doing well. I am ok with that.

[tntoriole]

Citing ERA exclusively is flawed way of justifying the trade. First of all, it was over a measly 23 IP. Secondly, other indicators like FIP and SO were far more favorable if you wanted to consider the sample size.

The Cubs sent Jake down after he made a couple starts to get straightened out, so he wasn't always lights out with them. He could have benefited from the same time with the Orioles if they would have just allowed him to throw in a motion he was comfortable with executing.

As you can see from Tom Verducci's excellent article, there were multiple factors related to Jake's transformation, including a radical change in his physical strengthening regimen. To say that it was simply the mean old Orioles pitching coaches not letting him do what he wanted to do is an overly simplified view of the reality, imho. Yes, making changes to his motion played a part, but I don't think Rick Adair was quite the ogre he is being made out to be...i.e. "forcing" Jake to pitch only the way Adair wanted and not "allowing" him to change. Pro athletes are not quite that easy to order around and Jake was far from being a rookie or in the minors. Jake was struggling because Jake was struggling. Sandy Koufax struggled for quite some time. Randy Johnson struggled for quite some time. If the Orioles had kept Jake in the rotation in 2013 with his horrific outings, they would have been essentially saying we are punting the season. In retrospect that may look fine, but if Jake was run out there for start after start getting hammered, then it would have been even worse.

[waroriole]

It's still a sore spot because we still can't develop starters. Something is still dramatically wrong.

I mean, I get that it's a kick in the nuts every time he dominates. Still, we've had a lot more go right in trades than wrong. Do we struggle with developing SP? No doubt. But, I'm not going to get too down about it because we're the best team in the AL over the last 4 years.

[blid]

Which group of players would you rather have: All of the players the Orioles have traded away in recent years (Arrieta, Eduardo Rodriguez, Hader, Koji, Strop, etc) or all of the players the Orioles have acquired through trades (Jones, Tillman, Brach, Hardy, Davis, etc..)?

We should've stopped after the Bedard trade. :scratchchinhmm: But we saved Arrieta's career by letting him go, and now he's a stud. I don't think anyone is under any delusions that he would have put it together in Baltimore if we'd kept hanging onto him, so it's for the best really... Not only did Arrieta get to blossom but the club got sent a strong signal that they need to take a long look at the way they're developing pitchers, because we blew it with Jake.

[Sessh]

We should've stopped after the Bedard trade. :scratchchinhmm: But we saved Arrieta's career by letting him go, and now he's a stud. I don't think anyone is under any delusions that he would have put it together in Baltimore if we'd kept hanging onto him, so it's for the best really... Not only did Arrieta get to blossom but the club got sent a strong signal that they need to take a long look at the way they're developing pitchers, because we blew it with Jake.

The only question then is did the organization get the signal or did they ignore it?