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TT: Something to consider when talking about Hyun Soo Kim

Tony-OH

By Tony-OH
in Orioles Talk

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Who, when and where within any of this forum did anyone say he was an All-Star or even well above replacement level?? You tend to exaggerate to all extremes when you post. Why is that???

The truth is often slight differences and small advantages and disadvantages, and trading off a fraction of a win for a few dollar, or to keep a player on the roster. It's rarely a case of a season turning on one player. Those low-level, unexciting kind of decisions don't often excite others to revolt and join a cause.

So if you're a true believer you can try to frame a 1-win swing among Oriole RFers as a battle for the soul of Maryland.

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thezeroes Major Leaguer Rising Star

thezeroes

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The truth is often slight differences and small advantages and disadvantages, and trading off a fraction of a win for a few dollar, or to keep a player on the roster. It's rarely a case of a season turning on one player. Those low-level, unexciting kind of decisions don't often excite others to revolt and join a cause.

So if you're a true believer you can try to frame a 1-win swing among Oriole RFers as a battle for the soul of Maryland.

I would like to know what all the players on the Forty Man Roster can or can not do to enable the Orioles to win the East Division or a Wild Card Slot. The life blood during a season is the Forty Man.

Having stated that I can then state that my reason for wanting to start the season "In-House" in the corner outfields is that the pieces parts need to be evaluated on the big stage to see if they fit or need to be trimmed away. The only way is to get playing time and see what you have. As fans we may be challenged to accept this premise because we as fans, would like to have an elite player at every position. This is not a valid premise as NO Team in MLB can afford this or attain it. All-Stars and performances change from year to year.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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Keep thinking he's an all-star, that prediction will work out real well for you. Can't wait for the .290 OBP he produces because for some reason the team thinks the current RF situation is fine and in no need of upgrade.

Dude, they just had Fowler signed. They obviously recognize the need. The problem is that there are very few players left who would be true upgrades over what we have. And those that are left will have other teams bidding on them as well.

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Aristotelian Hangout Grand Counsel

Aristotelian

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Jackson would be a significant upgrade, which speaks more to how dire our situation is than his talent, but a .700 or thereabouts OPS with plus defense is way better than anything Alvarez could do (good arm =\= good fielder). Bruce's upside alone is worth a shot and would be eons better than what we have.

I agree with you about Jackson (not about Bruce), but you said "the team currently thinks the RF situation is fine" and the Fowler deal shows that is not the case. They may sign Jackson or they may get outbid by Cleveland but the team at least recognizes the need otherwise they would not have signed Fowler.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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Jackson would be a significant upgrade, which speaks more to how dire our situation is than his talent, but a .700 or thereabouts OPS with plus defense is way better than anything Alvarez could do (good arm =\= good fielder). Bruce's upside alone is worth a shot and would be eons better than what we have.
I doubt Jackson would be an upgrade, but I think Bruce would be. Not eons though. You really need to back off the hyperbole. No one will take you seriously.
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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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People are saying Alvarez could be a productive everyday player and they're taken aeriously. What's the difference?
He could be a productive every day player The key words here are could, as in maybe, and productive, as in around average. You are saying people are saying he's a potential AS. Either you can't read or that's hyperbole.
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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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People are saying Alvarez could be a productive everyday player and they're taken aeriously. What's the difference?

The issue is that you don't see the difference between saying Alvarez might be a decent if unspectacular solution in RF and saying Alvarez is going to be an All Star. You're taking one win and rounding it off to four for effect.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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You actually think he's a good major league player. Like, really?

I believe in advanced statistics but I think you need to realize that the season isn't simmed in Out Of The Park baseball. It's as if you think teams actual wins are decimals that you just add together. Can't remember the last time a team ended with an 83.6-78.4 record.

I've presented publicly available Zips and Steamer forecasts that show relatively little difference in production between Alvarez and players like Jackson, Bruce, and Markakis. You're presented hyperbole, insults, and unsubstantiated incredulity. Do you have any substance to show us that backs up your opinions?

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kim Hyun-soo is in today's lineup. Sing his song loud <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Orioles?src=hash">#Orioles</a> fans... <a href="https://t.co/gNj6Hx3Hwu">pic.twitter.com/gNj6Hx3Hwu</a></p>— Dan (@MyKBO) <a href="

">March 2, 2016</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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Jackson would be a significant upgrade, which speaks more to how dire our situation is than his talent, but a .700 or thereabouts OPS with plus defense is way better than anything Alvarez could do (good arm =\= good fielder). Bruce's upside alone is worth a shot and would be eons better than what we have.

Jackson's hit .265/.319/.382 over the last three seasons. Good for a 96 wRC+. He's a below-average hitter. Also he's been a run or two above average in CF over that same period. That works out to about a win and a half in nearly full-time play. Even if you consider Alvarez a replacement player, a zero, Jackson is only a win or two better. I suppose you could call that significant, I think it's pretty far down in the noise.

Bruce might be an upgrade, but his performances the last two years are almost exactly what I'd expect out of Alvarez at 25 times the cost (plus prospects in trade).

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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The issue is that you're presenting projections as absolutes. The players could be better than that, or they could be worse. That projection is the absolute best case scenario for Alvarez, whereas the projections for Bruce and Jackson are middle of the road projections. Bruce could screw around and hit 30 homers for us and play good defense. Jackson could be a little more like his Detroit self. Alvarez's absolute best case scenario is "kinda average".

No, the projection for Alvarez is the same as for anyone, including Bruce or Jackson, it's an average or a median.

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