Article: Flash Has Little Value

[sportsfan8703]

He does not have pop, hence he has little value.

15-20 HR's in 600 PA's would be considered pop for a MI. Flaherty isn't great or anything. But if Schoop weren't here, he would probably be the starter. Like I said earlier in the thread, Flaherty does have value in his current role with the O's. He's just not a sexy name to include in make believe trade proposals for Sonny Gray and James Shields. He's the utility guy on a team with an IF of everyday players. What do you want him to be? Andrew Miller?

[Aristotelian]

The Orioles missed the boat when they didn't develop his bat with regular ABs in AAA. The same way they missed the boat with McFarland by yo-yoing him back and forth. And missed on Logan Verret as well. A lot of people will disagree with me but for a team that has do much "success" with Rule 5 players I feel like they haven't really optimized the potential of those players. Now they seem to be trying g to that with Garcia. We will see how it turns out.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more with this post. They have gotten about as much out of TJ as you could possibly expect. He was never rotation material, particularly 2014-15 when we had 6+ guys ahead of him. He seems to be comfortable in the long relief/occasional high leverage role and has been productive.

The team did not miss on Verret, they simply had no room on the roster. It was him and Garcia, they went with Garcia. Now they have another guy in the system who throws 95+.

Flaherty has been a useful backup player throughout his career, about what you expect from a Rule 5 guy.

Finally, you conveniently left out Rickard. If anything, I would call the development of Rule 5 players a smashing success for the Orioles relative to their peers.

[Can_of_corn]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more with this post. They have gotten about as much out of TJ as you could possibly expect. He was never rotation material, particularly 2014-15 when we had 6+ guys ahead of him. He seems to be comfortable in the long relief/occasional high leverage role and has been productive.

The team did not miss on Verret, they simply had no room on the roster. It was him and Garcia, they went with Garcia. Now they have another guy in the system who throws 95+.

Flaherty has been a useful backup player throughout his career, about what you expect from a Rule 5 guy.

Finally, you conveniently left out Rickard. If anything, I would call the development of Rule 5 players a smashing success for the Orioles relative to their peers.

I think it is still very early.

He does look like he can be a 1-2 WAR guy so far.

[Why Not?]

Good point, but not every criticism of the man in OH is legit, there is way too much negativity in here at times.

...and more importantly, the criticisms are made without knowing the multitude of variables that lead to the decision.

[tntoriole]

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[MrOrange82]

...and more importantly, the criticisms are made without knowing the multitude of variables that lead to the decision.

If knowing every single variable is required to criticize a decision, how can we justify applauding anyone for good moves? If we don't know every factor that contributed to a positive outcome, do we chalk it up to luck? Why pay for a manager at all?

[DrungoHazewood]

Isn't the truth that Ryan Flaherty has little value from the standpoint of runs and run prevention as a regular player, but the fact is that with limited rosters you almost have to have a player who can adequately play multiple positions and fill in on an as-needed basis for whomever has taken a nick that day?

If you argue that Flaherty has so little value that he shouldn't be on the team, aren't you arguing that almost all teams are being inefficient by carrying utility infielders? Willie Bloomquist is more-or-less Ryan Flaherty and he had a 15-year career. I suppose with the way rosters and AAA teams are put together you could try stashing all your backups in Norfolk and if Hardy turns an ankle you just play Davis at third, Machado at short and Alvarez/Kim/Trumbo/whomever at first for a game or two. And you could gain a fraction of a win by keeping somebody like Christian Walker to pinch hit three times a week.

[Frobby]

Remember when folks wanted to send Schoop down for a short time so we could keep him under team control for an extra year?

Fixed that for you. I don't think anyone was advocating sending Schoop down so that we could see more of Flaherty at 2B.

Flash is the baseball player equivalent of duct tape. He's not the permanent solution to any problem, but he'll hold things together until a better solution is available.

[Can_of_corn]

Fixed that for you. I don't think anyone was advocating sending Schoop down so that we could see more of Flaherty at 2B.

Flash is the baseball player equivalent of duct tape. He's not the permanent solution to any problem, but he'll hold things together until a better solution is available.

I think some of them were. Like a certain poster who compared him to Zobrist.

[Camden_yardbird]

I think Flaherty was already who he was going to be. I don't think 600 AB in Norfolk would have fundamentally changed him. Manny and Schoop more or less skipped Norfolk.

I have to disagree. Flaherty always showed a propensity to healthy averages and strong on base skills in the minor leagues (.270/.340) range. He was always a slow starter at new levels and while he struggled in 2011 in AAA, he showed growth in AA the previous two years. When he was selected by the Orioles in 2012 he predictably struggled in the major leagues, however a short trip and a healthy dose of AB's in Norfolk again showed growth with the bat. He again progressed from a slow start in AAA Iowa in 2011 to a healthy batting line in Norfolk in 2012. I think if you had seen the Orioles plan ahead and give him regular ABs in Norfolk in 2013, we would be talking about him being the heir to Hardy at SS, and his development team might have negated the need to extend Hardy in the first place.

They missed on this one.

[DrungoHazewood]

I have to disagree. Flaherty always showed a propensity to healthy averages and strong on base skills in the minor leagues (.270/.340) range. He was always a slow starter at new levels and while he struggled in 2011 in AAA, he showed growth in AA the previous two years. When he was selected by the Orioles in 2012 he predictably struggled in the major leagues, however a short trip and a healthy dose of AB's in Norfolk again showed growth with the bat. He again progressed from a slow start in AAA Iowa in 2011 to a healthy batting line in Norfolk in 2012. I think if you had seen the Orioles plan ahead and give him regular ABs in Norfolk in 2013, we would be talking about him being the heir to Hardy at SS, and his development team might have negated the need to extend Hardy in the first place.

They missed on this one.

I wouldn't call hitting .270 with 45 walks/500 PAs in the minors all that great. Not when he's 24-25 and still in AA. I don't think it's as simple as giving a 26-year-old a full year of AAA in a pitcher's park, that wasn't going to change a .650 OPS/.280 OBP guy into a productive MLB hitter and a good fielding shortstop.

[Can_of_corn]

Exactly. Flaherty doesn't have any value until, suddenly, he does when someone gets injured. If there's someone with no value on the team currently, it's Kim, who can't really defend, hit, run, or pitch. Though he will probably give you a better AB than Flaherty.

While I will give you run and pitch, and I am leaning toward agreeing with you on defend (not sure if he is worse than some of the other options) we don't know if he will hit.

[DrungoHazewood]

If there's someone with no value on the team currently, it's Kim, who can't really defend, hit, run, or pitch. Though he will probably give you a better AB than Flaherty.

I don't think we have nearly enough information to make those statements with any certainty.

[calmunderfire]

I wouldn't call hitting .270 with 45 walks/500 PAs in the minors all that great. Not when he's 24-25 and still in AA. I don't think it's as simple as giving a 26-year-old a full year of AAA in a pitcher's park, that wasn't going to change a .650 OPS/.280 OBP guy into a productive MLB hitter and a good fielding shortstop.

Typically a player's profile is formed by 24/25. Basically you are what you are by the time you're 25 and that you're about to plateau and stop making noticeable improvements in your game.

[DrungoHazewood]

Typically a player's profile is formed by 24/25. Basically you are what you are by the time you're 25 and that you're about to plateau and stop making noticeable improvements in your game.

Mostly. An average player peaks at 27, but is probably 90% of the way there by 25.