Build next years team

[Bahama O's Fan]

Unless ownership gives Buck and Dan an extension beyond 2018, there will be no rebuilding; we are GOING FOR IT for the next two years, so get that rebuilding idea out of your head. Now, let's look at the team.

Starting Pitching: We have six guys under contract that could be starters: Tillman, Gausman, Bundy, Miley, Ubaldo and Gallardo with another long man, Worley. Miley and Ubaldo looked better later in the season. If management that is going to be a consistent uptick in their play, then I feel there will be no changes here. Five will start; one will go in the 'pen. Worley will be there if two get injured. We may pick up some young AAA type guys, but we are going to try to "season" Wright and Wilson I believe.

Bullpen: I think it's "set". No need to do anything

Catcher: This is the big question. I do not think Matt is worth a long contract, nor the QO. Joseph, I believe, had a bad year, due to injury. He was below his career numbers. I would bring in a cheaper alternative to battle for the starting job with Joseph, Pena and Cisco

Infield: I think this is set with Davis, Schoop, Hardy, Machado and Flaherty. It would be nice if we could find a younger player that could be a replacement for Hardy or Machado in the future.

Outfield: Jones, Kim and Rickard are in place. We need at least one more starter or platoon and maybe another. I like the idea of Bourn or finding someone that can put up a better OBP. I do believe having Rickard all season and Kim with a year under his belt will make a big difference.

DH: I believe we should just hand it to Mancini.

So, I don't see the any major changes happening.

[Justinlstn]

I still would like Doug Fister in our rotation. But that will be a mute point if we cannot get rid of one of Jimenez, Miley or Gallardo.

[Bahama O's Fan]

I still would like Doug Fister in our rotation. But that will be a mute point if we cannot get rid of one of Jimenez, Miley or Gallardo.

I think we should be able to get rid of Ubaldo after his showing recently and possibly Miley. Gallardo has no value.

[Justinlstn]

I think we should be able to get rid of Ubaldo after his showing recently and possibly Miley. Gallardo has no value.

Maybe we can send someone to the Cubs, they always seem able to turn our inconsistent pitcher's into quality.

[1968_bills_fan]

For what I want to do, I'm 50 50 whether we start over or have enough for another try.

For the starting over idea,,,,, we came in 3rd in our division this year and [1] Boston is young and will be better next year, [2] the jays beat us this year and might lose 2 players, [3] the yankees have reloaded, are young, have a deep farm club and will take more games,,,,,[4] we will probably lose Trumbo and Wieters.. Why not QO Trumbo, Wieters (not many very good catchers available this year), and trade Manny, Britton and Davis for a bundle of good prospects.

For the we are okay idea,,,,,, We will QO Trumbo and Wieters but replace them with Avarez/Mancini and Pena/Joseph/newguy. Britton should be traded for the best available just-about-ready minor league catcher.

The pitching will be improved as Bundy and Gausman will improve to adequate #2/#3 starters, Tillman will be the same and Miley/Worley/Garalldi will fill the #5 spot. Urbaldo may have found himself again and he could be the #4 starter with a quick hook. There are a number of works-in-progress within our system that might break into the starting rotation. Wright/Wilson/Hart/Lee/Dusing/Drake among these six we might have somebody step up.

The outfield will be better. Kim was missing the first half of the year- now he is the mostly starter in LF. Rickard is the mostly starter in RF. For right now, Pierce and Reimoid are the subs.

We would then have holes in corner outfield and catcher to fill in. Britton and one other of the relievers are the trade chips for these, unless we chose to struggle with our second tier players and wait for the farm system to mature.

[Redskins Rick]

I doubt PAG will agree to blowing up this team and starting over.

No matter how many posts that OH posters write and sincerely believe they are right.

[Camden_yardbird]

Rather fortunately for the Orioles their biggest need (corner OF) is this free agent class' biggest supply. Rather unfortunately this was also their biggest need last off season and other than considering that Trumbo was a "corner outfielder" for the Orioles, Duquette failed pretty hard at augmentingredients the offense while also keeping a strong defense. Perhaps this year he will be more successful. I am interested to see what they do with Kim this off season, he really helps the offense but Buck doesn't trust his defense. This could be a friction point between he and Duquette this off season.

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[wildcard]

Bundy probably will start in the rotation. However, considering the Orioles history, it's highly doubtful they start one of the high priced guys (Gallardo/Jimenez/Miley) in the bullpen. In 2015, it looked like Gausman would start in the rotation and instead they started him the bullpen because they refused to start Jimenez in the bullpen. You made the same exact argument about Jimenez always starting slow. They still put Jimenez in the rotation and he proceeded to have the best first half of any Oriole starter.

Sisco COULD start the year with the Orioles. Again, I consider it highly doubtful. Buck is not going to "develop" Sisco defensively at the ML level. The primary for having Sisco on the team is for his bat. You don't have him on the team for his bat and then have the lefthanded part of the platoon only play 50-60 games. Makes no sense. I do not believe Sisco will start the year with the O's.

Good luck.

Very odd. Steve Pearce will be 34 next April. Is that your cutoff for "too old". Was he too old this year when he put up an .867 OPS for the season in 267 AB's. Too expensive? Maybe. He made 4.75M this year. That might be a little too much for a bench guy/platoon player but I think the Rays got there money's worth. Injury prone? Too an extent. He's never really been penciled in as a full time player and he's gotten over 250 AB's the last three years, each year.

You say the bolded like it's a given. Pedro Alvarez was our main DH and had a .322 OBP. Mancini had a .349 OBP in AAA. It's not sue thing his OBP is signficantly bettter. As for Sisco, you only have him playing 50-60 games. He essentially is making the jump from AA to the majors. You don't account for any degradation in his numbers. It's quite possible that Sisco is not ready for the majors and hit's .220 and even a good walk rate won't make up for that.

Gausman began the year on the DL and then Gallardo went down until mid June. Buck didn't have much choice but to start Jimenez.

Having Sisco on the team to start the year makes all the sense in the world. Joesph is the main catcher. Sisco begins the year starting once a week and learning. He will work with Russel extensively in ST and if he seems good enough, I think he makes the team. His playing time increases during the year. I look for the O's to have a veteran catcher at AAA in case he is needed. The O's need OBP to get better and Sisco has a good chance to provide it. I will not be surprise if Sisco gets some guidance from Russell this off season.

No one on the 2016 team was 34 or older. Dan adds younger player to keep the pipeline good and keep the team age down. The O's let Pearce go last off season and that will probably happen again.

[Ohfan67]

Rather fortunately for the Orioles their biggest need (corner OF) is this free agent class' biggest supply. Rather unfortunately this was also their biggest need last off season and other than considering that Trumbo was a "corner outfielder" for the Orioles, Duquette failed pretty hard at augmentingredients the offense while also keeping a strong defense. Perhaps this year he will be more successful. I am interested to see what they do with Kim this off season, he really helps the offense but Buck doesn't trust his defense. This could be a friction point between he and Duquette this off season.

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They thought they had Fowler. Trumbo was going to DH. You can fault DD for not getting Fowler (although it's not clear what happened there), but Trumbo in RF was not the original plan.

[Ohfan67]

Lots of fun thoughts and discussion in the thread (mostly ).

I don't recall the roster being this settled going into an offseason in a long time. Not many positions to play with, assuming the Orioles are not rebuilding (and of course I think DD and Angelos are staying the course...win as much as they can within their budget).

My two cents:

You can't trust Joseph and Sisco as your two catchers. Joseph's OPS of .413 (.413!) at age 30 says it all. I agree with RZNJ that Buck is very unlikely to trust Sisco as a starter in April. If the O's don't sign Weiters, then I think they need an average, at least, catcher. Joseph can backup, but you can't run him out as a starter.

Jettison Reimold and Flaherty. I think they can find better backups.

Get a real RF or a real CF (and move Jones to right). Fowler would have been great last year. Painful that the Fowler signing didn't happen. Find something similar this year and make it happen. I think Rickard will be the primary backup OF, but is likely to be a very poor hitter.

I think the rotation is basically set with Jimenez or Gallardo on the bubble at the end of spring training. RZNJ is right, IMO, that Bundy may start the year in the pen to allow DD and/or injuries to sort out the 6th starter situation.

I would offer Weiters a two year 25 million dollar deal (start less with this the max offer). That gives the O's time to figure out what they have with Sisco. If he walks, then see above.

I would only offer Trumbo a team friendly deal. Maybe a very team friendly deal. I would go with Mancini as the primary DH. Maybe add another DH type late in the free agency period when somebody is cheap (a la Alvarez this year).

[sportsfan8703]

Lots of fun thoughts and discussion in the thread (mostly ).

I don't recall the roster being this settled going into an offseason in a long time. Not many positions to play with, assuming the Orioles are not rebuilding (and of course I think DD and Angelos are staying the course...win as much as they can within their budget).

My two cents:

You can't trust Joseph and Sisco as your two catchers. Joseph's OPS of .413 (.413!) at age 30 says it all. I agree with RZNJ that Buck is very unlikely to trust Sisco as a starter in April. If the O's don't sign Weiters, then I think they need an average, at least, catcher. Joseph can backup, but you can't run him out as a starter.

Jettison Reimold and Flaherty. I think they can find better backups.

Get a real RF or a real CF (and move Jones to right). Fowler would have been great last year. Painful that the Fowler signing didn't happen. Find something similar this year and make it happen. I think Rickard will be the primary backup OF, but is likely to be a very poor hitter.

I think the rotation is basically set with Jimenez or Gallardo on the bubble at the end of spring training. RZNJ is right, IMO, that Bundy may start the year in the pen to allow DD and/or injuries to sort out the 6th starter situation.

I would offer Weiters a two year 25 million dollar deal (start less with this the max offer). That gives the O's time to figure out what they have with Sisco. If he walks, then see above.

I would only offer Trumbo a team friendly deal. Maybe a very team friendly deal. I would go with Mancini as the primary DH. Maybe add another DH type late in the free agency period when somebody is cheap (a la Alvarez this year).

My early offseason predictions are:

Sign Matt Holliday OF 2/18

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hollima01.shtml

Sign Nick Hundley C 2/8

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hundlni01.shtml

Re-sign Pedro Alvarez 2/16

Michael Bourn 1/1.5

40 man Departures:

Trumbo QO

MW

Hunter

Worley ( Non tender )

Reimold

Stubbs

Pearce(TJ surgery???)

Janish

Duensing

F.Pena (out of options)

[Sessh]

If the 2017 team looks almost the same as the 2016 team, expect almost the same results. Gausman and now Tillman have history of shoulder problems requiring DL stints and Bundy's health is no sure thing, either. Buck will keep "his guys" which likely means more of Reimold, Pearce and Flaherty. Kim will probably ride the bench most of the season again because Buck will favor Rickard and probably Bourn over him.

Jones will take another step back offensively after posting the worst batting average of his career which he set last year and his lowest OPS and SLG since he was practically a rookie. His OF defense will also take another hit. Jones should be dealt this offseason.

Britton needs to be dealt. His value won't be any higher than it is now and the Orioles need an infusion of young talent. Machado does not have a high baseball IQ at all and is the worst base runner I've seen in quite some time. He is also a hot head and hot dogs it too much out of the box. He's a great hitter and fielder though I think the more he bulks up, the more his D will suffer. He should be dealt now while the Orioles still have enough players with trade value to make a rebuild a shorter process. I know the three stooges won't go for it, but that's to be expected. They couldn't see a train coming down a dark tunnel even if it had the sun as a headlamp.

Just keep almost everything the same and expect better results. Don't be disappointed when the season is over and the Orioles aren't a factor in the postseason again, but I'm sure that won't bother some fans here so long as they do well in the regular season because that means success alone. Just keep it all the same. The Orioles will collapse in the second half again if they are in it and if Buck doesn't manage to lose the clubhouse if he hasn't already after turning the Orioles into a big joke again and then not having much to say about it afterwards.

[downsouth]

My 2 cents is that it's starting to sound alot like it did after the 2014 season. Trumbo's defense may not be great, but how do you replace 47 homers? You can't run Bourn and Rickard out there every day like we tried to do with De Aza and Snider, I like them both as the 4th & 5th OF's but not as regulars or platoons for that matter. I think I would just roll with Trumbo out there again, maybe he can be signed for something like 3/40 maybe?

Also, I would let Wieters walk unless he took a 2 year deal. His production isn't worth near the asking price. I believe Alex Avila is a FA this offseason, I wouldn't have a problem with him, or someone of the like splitting time with Joseph until Sisco is ready to take over.

I think the pitching will be better than last especially with Bundy knowing he's going to be starting all season. Gausman should take the #1 spot from Tillman, and your top 3 will be pretty good.

The money saved from not bringing Wieters & Alvarez back should come close to covering arb raises and what little FA spending you need to do. I think a $150-160 payroll will be the norm going forward

[PaulFolk]

If the 2017 team looks almost the same as the 2016 team, expect almost the same results. Gausman and now Tillman have history of shoulder problems requiring DL stints and Bundy's health is no sure thing, either. Buck will keep "his guys" which likely means more of Reimold, Pearce and Flaherty. Kim will probably ride the bench most of the season again because Buck will favor Rickard and probably Bourn over him.

Jones will take another step back offensively after posting the worst batting average of his career which he set last year and his lowest OPS and SLG since he was practically a rookie. His OF defense will also take another hit. Jones should be dealt this offseason.

Britton needs to be dealt. His value won't be any higher than it is now and the Orioles need an infusion of young talent. Machado does not have a high baseball IQ at all and is the worst base runner I've seen in quite some time. He is also a hot head and hot dogs it too much out of the box. He's a great hitter and fielder though I think the more he bulks up, the more his D will suffer. He should be dealt now while the Orioles still have enough players with trade value to make a rebuild a shorter process. I know the three stooges won't go for it, but that's to be expected. They couldn't see a train coming down a dark tunnel even if it had the sun as a headlamp.

Just keep almost everything the same and expect better results. Don't be disappointed when the season is over and the Orioles aren't a factor in the postseason again, but I'm sure that won't bother some fans here so long as they do well in the regular season because that means success alone. Just keep it all the same. The Orioles will collapse in the second half again if they are in it and if Buck doesn't manage to lose the clubhouse if he hasn't already after turning the Orioles into a big joke again and then not having much to say about it afterwards.

You mean a postseason appearance, then? I'll gladly take that.

But tell me more about how the team will be a much bigger factor in the postseason next year if we trade Machado, Britton, and Jones.

[El Gordo]

If the 2017 team looks almost the same as the 2016 team, expect almost the same results. Gausman and now Tillman have history of shoulder problems requiring DL stints and Bundy's health is no sure thing, either. Buck will keep "his guys" which likely means more of Reimold, Pearce and Flaherty. Kim will probably ride the bench most of the season again because Buck will favor Rickard and probably Bourn over him.

Jones will take another step back offensively after posting the worst batting average of his career which he set last year and his lowest OPS and SLG since he was practically a rookie. His OF defense will also take another hit. Jones should be dealt this offseason.

Britton needs to be dealt. His value won't be any higher than it is now and the Orioles need an infusion of young talent. Machado does not have a high baseball IQ at all and is the worst base runner I've seen in quite some time. He is also a hot head and hot dogs it too much out of the box. He's a great hitter and fielder though I think the more he bulks up, the more his D will suffer. He should be dealt now while the Orioles still have enough players with trade value to make a rebuild a shorter process. I know the three stooges won't go for it, but that's to be expected. They couldn't see a train coming down a dark tunnel even if it had the sun as a headlamp.

Just keep almost everything the same and expect better results. Don't be disappointed when the season is over and the Orioles aren't a factor in the postseason again, but I'm sure that won't bother some fans here so long as they do well in the regular season because that means success alone. Just keep it all the same. The Orioles will collapse in the second half again if they are in it and if Buck doesn't manage to lose the clubhouse if he hasn't already after turning the Orioles into a big joke again and then not having much to say about it afterwards.

This post is a joke, right? If it isn't it's still a joke.