Poor Decision Making

[Bradysburns]

Yes ... I've watched plent of losing Oriole's baseball since 1983. I have enjoyed the last five seasons but I think now is the time to sell. The team next year will not have as much power. It will include a mediocre RF, Macini at DH, and the same low team OBP that we have dealt with the last few years. Tillman, Manny, and Britton will be heading into free agency.

I have enjoyed contending and we've given it a go. The widow is closing due to departures and a tight payroll. Prolonging it is going to hurt the long term recovery. I can't see how this years team will come close to 89 games

When one window closes, another opens.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yes ... I've watched plent of losing Oriole's baseball since 1983. I have enjoyed the last five seasons but I think now is the time to sell. The team next year will not have as much power. It will include a mediocre RF, Macini at DH, and the same low team OBP that we have dealt with the last few years. Tillman, Manny, and Britton will be heading into free agency.

I have enjoyed contending and we've given it a go. The widow is closing due to departures and a tight payroll. Prolonging it is going to hurt the long term recovery. I can't see how this years team will come close to 89 games

I think you can find many threads and hundreds of posts from each of the past five offseasons saying the same thing. And that's why I have a fair amount of respect for the Duquette/Showalter combo. Five consecutive years where the national consensus was that the Orioles were a .500 or worse team, and five consecutive years where they finished .500 or better.

[Frobby]

I have enjoyed contending and we've given it a go. The widow is closing due to departures and a tight payroll. Prolonging it is going to hurt the long term recovery. I can't see how this years team will come close to 89 games

Kind've a funny thing to say when the offseason has barely begun and we have no idea what Duquette will do.

That said, I think the key to next year will be whether we get a better performance out of the starting pitchers, and that is wildly unpredictable. The starters' ERA was 5.15 in the first 81 games, 4.30 in the second 81 games. Gausman came on strong, Bundy did well in his first exposure as a starter, and Ubaldo suddenly remembered how to pitch. If the starters were able to post a 4.30 ERA for the full season next year, I'd feel pretty good about our chances to win 89+ games, so long as we make a few moves to fill the offensive holes. In fact, if we put together a better defensive outfield, the starters potentially could do considerably better than a 4.30 ERA. Mind you, I am not saying that is more likely than not to happen, but it is hardly inconceivable, either.

[Roll Tide]

There will be plenty of time for a rebuild and intellectually sound decisions for the next GM. This one prefers not to have losing seasons.

Just wondering if you know when that will be. 3 of our best players could easily be lost to free agency in a year,

[Roll Tide]

Kind've a funny thing to say when the offseason has barely begun and we have no idea what Duquette will do.

That said, I think the key to next year will be whether we get a better performance out of the starting pitchers, and that is wildly unpredictable. The starters' ERA was 5.15 in the first 81 games, 4.30 in the second 81 games. Gausman came on strong, Bundy did well in his first exposure as a starter, and Ubaldo suddenly remembered how to pitch. If the starters were able to post a 4.30 ERA for the full season next year, I'd feel pretty good about our chances to win 89+ games, so long as we make a few moves to fill the offensive holes. In fact, if we put together a better defensive outfield, the starters potentially could do considerably better than a 4.30 ERA. Mind you, I am not saying that is more likely than not to happen, but it is hardly inconceivable, either.

Fair enough, and I agree about the pitching.

Offensively the team will be worse without Wieters, Trumbo, and Alvarez.

Doesn't sound like their is a lot of money to spend. And most of it will be used up on our arb increases.

Trumbo carried this team the 1st half and even a number of games late.

[backwardsk]

Just wondering if you know when that will be. 3 of our best players could easily be lost to free agency in a year,

I feel like I've seen this from you before. We have two more years of Machado and Britton.

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[Redskins Rick]

I feel like I've seen this from you before. We have two more years of Machado and Britton.

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Slow off-season, posters have to regurgitate stuff.

[Roll Tide]

I feel like I've seen this from you before. We have two more years of Machado and Britton.

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2 more years is peak value IMO. Not saying that your not correct, but even so Duquette would need to be gone after this season for it to even matter

[Redskins Rick]

2 more years is peak value IMO. Not saying that your not correct, but even so Duquette would need to be gone after this season for it to even matter

DD will be here until the end of 2018.

[Roll Tide]

Slow off-season, posters have to regurgitate stuff.

Can't get the barf emoji on my cell.

Not regurgitating stuff, please add something to the discussion.

My point in this thread is the that if they are truly out of money and we have no real money to replace the outgoing guys, and the looming problems with our guys reach free agency it's time to restock the farm.

Waiting will cost the Orioles in return in a trade or money and years to whomever of Tilly, Britton, or Manny that they manage to keep

[Frobby]

Fair enough, and I agree about the pitching.

Offensively the team will be worse without Wieters, Trumbo, and Alvarez.

Doesn't sound like their is a lot of money to spend. And most of it will be used up on our arb increases.

Trumbo carried this team the 1st half and even a number of games late.

I agree that the group who replace Trumbo, Alvarez and Wieters are not likely to contribute as much offensively as those three did. There's always the chance that the returning players will, as a group, perform better in 2017 than 2016. I could see any of Davis, Jones, Machado and Schoop improving on last season. Not saying that will happen, just saying it could. It's also possible that Joseph returns to form and the offensive drop at catcher is not significant when you consider his non-contribution last year (our catchers had a combined .644 OPS last season, not a very high standard to meet).

[25 Nuggets]

Just wondering if you know when that will be. 3 of our best players could easily be lost to free agency in a year,

2 more years is peak value IMO. Not saying that your not correct, but even so Duquette would need to be gone after this season for it to even matter

DD will be here until the end of 2018.

Yes, 2018. Same as Buck Showalter, by the way. Don't jump the gun!

Here are the players looking at free agency after 2017

Chris Tillman

J.J. Hardy (vesting option)

Ubaldo Jimenez

Yovani Gallardo (team option)

Wade Miley (team option)

Ryan Flaherty

Who are these three players, especially if Hardy's option is picked up?

2018, Roll Tide. Two years before the misery begins. That's assuming no extensions, and all the money coming off the books from the above not being reinvested.

[Roll Tide]

Yes, 2018. Same as Buck Showalter, by the way. Don't jump the gun!

Here are the players looking at free agency after 2017

Chris Tillman

J.J. Hardy (vesting option)

Ubaldo Jimenez

Yovani Gallardo (team option)

Wade Miley (team option)

Ryan Flaherty

Who are these three players, especially if Hardy's option is picked up?

2018, Roll Tide. Two years before the misery begins. That's assuming no extensions, and all the money coming off the books from the above not being reinvested.

Tillman would be a huge loss. And my point is Manny and Britton can't be considered rentals right now. They will be less valuable once that happens

[Redskins Rick]

Tillman would be a huge loss. And my point is Manny and Britton can't be considered rentals right now. They will be less valuable once that happens

I expect the term to sign Tilly to an extension.

[25 Nuggets]

Tillman would be a huge loss. And my point is Manny and Britton can't be considered rentals right now. They will be less valuable once that happens

I've maintained this off season that the Orioles should trade Britton because I don't think he'll have another year as good as 2016. They can get a TON for him based on what the Chapman and Miller trades brought the Yankees.