Tim Kurkjian On Whether Orioles Should Trade Manny Machado

[FlipTheBird]

Just now, crawjo said:

Right. The moment they trade Machado, the rebuild is under way. That's what I meant by "current." I forgot Mancini. You can count him as part of the next contending team. Gausman and Schoop would have to be extended or signed as free agents to still be on the team when the club was competitive again (following a Machado trade). 

Well, eventually you're going to have to sign/extend some guys. You aren't going to go out and acquire 20 new pre-arbitration players and make that your roster.

Schoop is worthy of an extension, and I wish the team would do with him what they didn't do with Manny - extend him early, at a discount.

Gausman, the jury is still out on, but I think he's certainly better than he's pitched this year.

[Pheasants]

2 minutes ago, crawjo said:

Yeah, I didn't notice that the poster was advocating acquiring a veteran pitcher. No way. Prospects are the thing. They need to be young, cheap, and under team control for a long time. 

I wasn't advocating acquiring a veteran--I was giving an option.  If the team thought they could plug in a new infielder from a trade and make a run this year, a veteran might be an option, but I consider that doubtful because they won't trade Manny if they thought they could make a run this year.

[FlipTheBird]

Just now, Pheasants said:

I wasn't advocating acquiring a veteran--I was giving an option.  If the team thought they could plug in a new infielder from a trade and make a run this year, a veteran might be an option, but I consider that doubtful because they won't trade Manny if they thought they could make a run this year.

If the Orioles are in the race come late July, Manny Machado having returned to form - aka being the best all-around player on the Baltimore Orioles - will have played a huge part in it. You couldn't trade that guy if you were serious.

[Pheasants]

Just to add one thing, I don't see any other trade that would get us an ace to make a run this year.

[El Gordo]

15 hours ago, esmd said:

Lol....do what you gotta do baby....incidentally, what was it that caused your reaction?  My contention that he isn't the player Jeter was, or just that I praised Jeter?  Or that it's foolish to give any one player the kind of deal he'll command?

Check out Manny's age 23 numers v Jeter's. And Manny as a 3B is still a better SS than Jeter.

 

[El Gordo]

27 minutes ago, crawjo said:

And what do you think is the likelihood that the Orioles can win the World Series in the next two years? I'd put the odds at maybe 2-3 percent, tops. 

I think their chances are as good as BOS or MFY. Too good to give up in the middle of the season. No team has ever thrown in the towel while they had a winning record, that's just a totally ludidcrous notion.

[FlipTheBird]

8 minutes ago, Pheasants said:

Just to add one thing, I don't see any other trade that would get us an ace to make a run this year.

It'd be an out of the frying pan into the fire situation. You acquire an ace but you lose your best player. A lateral move.

[Malike]

1 hour ago, Tryptamine said:

The Dodgers have both a very good 3B, whom they just resigned, and very good SS. Turner was worth 4.1fWAR in 2015, 5.6fWAR in 2016 and already 2.1fWAR this year. Seager was worth 7.5fWAR last year and 2.0fWAR so far this year. Machado may be better than Turner, but nowhere near enough to give up that kind of package.

Ah, Turner! Another one that got away!

[Ruzious]

10 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

I think their chances are as good as BOS or MFY. Too good to give up in the middle of the season. No team has ever thrown in the towel while they had a winning record, that's just a totally ludidcrous notion.

The Yankees were at least arguably still in it when they traded both Chapman and Miller.  If they had kept them both, they could have competed for a wildcard spot.    

[El Gordo]

Just now, Ruzious said:

The Yankees were at least arguably still in it when they traded both Chapman and Miller.  If they had kept them both, they could have competed for a wildcard spot.    

Trading Manny would be throwing in the towel. You don't do that unless you are hopelessly out of it at the TD.

[backwardsk]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

The thinking is that it's harder to sign a star player as a free agent after trading him away than to sign him when he's never played for another team.    Can you think of an example of a big star who was traded away in his prime and then re-signed with his old team while still in his prime?   I can't think of one.  

Sir Sidney!

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Sir Sidney!

I thought of that but he fails the "big star" requirement.

[backwardsk]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I thought of that but he fails the "big star" requirement.

Star may be up for debate, but he was definitely big.

[FlipTheBird]

13 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Sir Sidney!

What a flop that whole process turned out to be. The guys the O's got back did squat (Kurt Ainsworth, Damian Moss, Ryan Hannaman), and Sidney came back and collapsed. Ugh. Don't miss those days.

Ainsworth posted an ERA of over 10 in 33 odd innings for the Orioles, and never threw another professional pitch after mid-2004.

Ryan Hannaman never got past Frederick, and didn't throw another professional pitcher after 2004.

Damian Moss went 1-5 with a 6.22 ERA after the trade, and was out of the organization the following offseason. He very briefly appeared for the Rays, before spending years kicking around the minors before eventually retiring.

FYI, to those so keen on dealing Manny for arms - I did a deep dive. Ainsworth and Hannaman entered the 2003 season as the Giants' No. 3 and No. 6 prospects, per Scout.com. Sometimes, stuff happens.

[wildbillhiccup]

How about Machado to the Mets for a package centered around Conforto (OF), Rosario (SS), and Gsellman or a high end minor league arm? They have a glaring need a 3B and a glut of outfielders. Thoughts?