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MLB Host Flores: "Orioles Need a Complete Rebuild..."


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1 hour ago, backwardsk said:

Sure.  I want to know who the contenders have.  

BTW, what would be the board's reaction if we traded Manny for the number 3 (ish) prospect, and then 6-7 months later they aren't in the top 70?

Noah Syndergaard was acquired by the Mets from the Blue Jays in a trade.  You can acquire top pitching prospects in a trade.  There is always a chance a prospect will flame out, but Manny should net you an organization's number one prospect. 

If teams low ball you on Manny, just say no. 

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22 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Once Britton proves himself healthy, and assuming BAL and WSH can't work things out, I'd like to see Orioles move Britton for Yordan Alvarez and Franklin Perez. Baltimore might have to kick something else in, but damn that would be a nice return. A 19 year old with a 2.98 ERA in A+ and kid who turned 20 last week and is freshly promoted to A+ after putting up a .360/.468/.658 line in A ball.

And hopefully Orioles will play good enough that Britton gets some save opportunities.  :)

I would take that deal, not sure if the Orioles and Nats can play nice to work out a trade. 

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35 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

Once Britton proves himself healthy, and assuming BAL and WSH can't work things out, I'd like to see Orioles move Britton for Yordan Alvarez and Franklin Perez. Baltimore might have to kick something else in, but damn that would be a nice return. A 19 year old with a 2.98 ERA in A+ and kid who turned 20 last week and is freshly promoted to A+ after putting up a .360/.468/.658 line in A ball.

Do you like Perez better than Whitley?

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I wouldn't move Manny unless the deal was KILLER (like the Bedard trade to Seattle). However, I don't see a scenario where we can keep Manny unless we get rid of everyone else via trades or expiring contracts and build the offensive unit around Manny and Schoop and concentrate entirely upon constructing a long-term pipeline of pitching talent via the farm team (meaning being truly innovative with scouting and coaching) and the international draft. 

I have no idea if Angelos, DD and/or Buck has the willpower to wait out a 2-5 year turnaround (that could easily turn into another decade-long stretch of futility). Will an already battered and bruised hardcore fanbase stick with it as the steadily-decreasing base of casual fans age out of the game or lose interest to pursue other hobbies? 

This is where I think a true cleanout of the warehouse and ownership needs to happen. I don't hate PA believe it or not, I just don't believe his way of thinking will work for long-term success. We need a comprehensive philosophy from top to bottom. Everyone on the same page and willing to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. 

Need to open up the bank once every few years to grab proven talent. YES. 

Need to make an unpopular trade to improve the team for the long run. YES. 

Need to keep popular players for the sake of team chemistry even though he may represent a SLIGHT health risk. YES. 

Need to develop a fully reliable and trustworthy team of domestic and international scouts so they may identify cheap and incredible talent for consistent success (i.e. the Yankees organization). YES. 

Make sure that ownership trusts their GM and head coach to make the best decisions for the health of the team. YES. 

If we could just start at ground zero with these ideas in place, there's a lot we could accomplish. 

MSK 

 

 

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1 hour ago, backwardsk said:

I guess I haven't been clear.  I completely understand that pitchers, even HOFers like John Smoltz, are acquired for established players.  I want to know who the pitching prospects are that contenders have that we should get.

I think it's hard enough to identify teams that will trade for 1.5 years of Machado when guys like Moustakas and Frazier likely available.

 

1 hour ago, weams said:

Machado is far superior.

You've been clear, but your premise is based on the idea that other guys are available. Do you really think teams would hesitate to offer a good package for Machado if they were certain he was available?

As this piece states, they need to have a clear idea of what it is they want and make good decisions executing the plan.

Middle of the road isn't a good place to be. Pick a lane.

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5 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

 

You've been clear, but your premise is based on the idea that other guys are available. Do you really think teams would hesitate to offer a good package for Machado if they were certain he was available?

As this piece states, they need to have a clear idea of what it is they want and make good decisions executing the plan.

Middle of the road isn't a good place to be. Pick a lane.

Honestly, I'm not following.  Do I think we are the only ones selling a 3B?  No.  

Middle of the road is not a good place to be.  Agreed.  But you need someone on the other side of the trade.

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33 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Do you like Perez better than Whitley?

I do. His stuff isn't as overwhelming as Whitley's can be but his command is much better and his sequencing is a lot better too. Also, apparently Franklin just added a slider to his repertoire a couple starts ago and one scout said it has the makings of another plus pitch. I think they're both in the top 15 maybe in top 10 starters in the minors and there's no one out there I vastly prefer to them.

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13 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Honestly, I'm not following.  Do I think we are the only ones selling a 3B?  No.  

Middle of the road is not a good place to be.  Agreed.  But you need someone on the other side of the trade.

I wasn't aware we were selling one at all. Machado becomes the best chip out there IF they make him available. 

Not Moustakas. Not Frazier. Machado. I don't care how much time he has remaining until FA.

The Red Sox are a very good fit.

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2 hours ago, backwardsk said:

So why not keep your best prospects and get Moustakas instead?

Because Mike Moustakas WAR last 4 years:

  • 2014: 0.4
  • 2015: 4.4
  • 2016: 0.7
  • 2017: 1.3

Manny Machado:

  • 2014: 2.4
  • 2015: 7.1
  • 2016: 6.7
  • 2017: 1.5

Who is more likely to put up a > 5 WAR season next year? Who has better defense and will most likely have a superior second half?

I mean...why trade for a guy that is older by nearly 4 years who is far likely to have a poor 2018?

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9 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Because Mike Moustakas WAR last 4 years:

  • 2014: 0.4
  • 2015: 4.4
  • 2016: 0.7
  • 2017: 1.3

Manny Machado:

  • 2014: 2.4
  • 2015: 7.1
  • 2016: 6.7
  • 2017: 1.5

Who is more likely to put up a > 5 WAR season next year? Who has better defense and will most likely have a superior second half?

I mean...why trade for a guy that is older by nearly 4 years who is far likely to have a poor 2018?

In fairness, a team may look at Moustakas or Frazier as a less expensive (in prospects) upgrade.  I agree that these guys hurt Machado's value to some extent despite being inferior players. 

It's also been pointed out that KC may not be sellers.  Like us, the next three weeks will be important for them. 

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2 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

In fairness, a team may look at Moustakas or Frazier as a less expensive (in prospects) upgrade.  I agree that these guys hurt Machado's value to some extent despite being inferior players. 

It's also been pointed out that KC may not be sellers.  Like us, the next three weeks will be important for them. 

I also mistakenly assumed that Mous and Frazier were free agents after next year. They are not.

So, yeah. It's a rental vs. 1.5 year situation. I see your point.

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40 minutes ago, Tryptamine said:

I really don't think Moustakas is going anywhere. KC is 3 games out of the division and 1.5 games out of the WC.

KC was speculated to be sellers in May, but that seems doubtful after going 17-9 in June.  I still expect Cleveland to win the Central and separate themselves from the Twin and Royals. 

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