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Should JJ Hardy get his starting job back once he's healthy?

Frobby

By Frobby
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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

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19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Where are you getting the idea that Hardy is just barely above replacement level on defense?    That's not accurate, by the metrics.    He is slightly above average for a starting major league shortstop, which puts him far above replacement value.   

I was just looking at dWAR where he has been .6 wins above replacement, which is not enough to offset his sub replacement level offense. 

But you are right, based on DRS and UZR he is slightly above average. But again, does being slightly above average defensively offset the fact that offensively he costs the team 14 runs  compared to the average shortstop or has an OPS+ of 49?

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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9 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

I was just looking at dWAR where he has been .6 wins above replacement, which is not enough to offset his sub replacement level offense. 

But you are right, based on DRS and UZR he is slightly above average. But again, does being slightly above average defensively offset the fact that offensively he costs the team 14 runs  compared to the average shortstop or has an OPS+ of 49?

No, it doesn't, in my opinion.    If he continues hitting like that when he returns, I think he'll need to lose playing time to Beckham, assuming that Beckham is hitting decently.    But I think Buck will give Hardy a longer leash than I would.  

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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22 minutes ago, AlbionHero said:

How is it stupid? We got the worst production out of the SS spot this year in the league, and a good amount of that was from Hardy playing. Any average player would be an improvement.

Hardy is not a warm body. His glove has value.Did you see the two  bone head plays Beckham made tonight? Cost at least two runs.

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Luke-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Luke-OH

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10 hours ago, El Gordo said:

 You have some numbers to back this up? CD has saved Manny's butt much more than Hardy, IMO. People see a new shiny toy  and have to run down Hardy to fit their narrative, Has beem the #1 defensive SS in baseball for his career 2005-17 according to Fan Graphs, He isn't that now but he hasn't exactly fallen off the cliff with his glove. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2017&month=0&season1=2005&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

I wish there was some sort of metric that put defensive, offensive, and baserunning value together so we could make a comparison between Hardy and Beckham.  Oh wait, there is the WAR metric.

Tim Beckham (2015-2017, 791PA) 2.6 fWAR (2.0/600PA), 2.5 brWAR (1.9/600PA)

J.J. Hardy (2015-2017, 1114PA) 1.6 fWAR (.9/600PA), 1.3 brWAR ( .7/600PA)

I mean it's pretty clear, and that's not even taking into consideration Beckham is just entering his prime and will be a part of the club beyond this season. While Hardy is about to turn 35 and has already been declining for multiple seasons and is a FA after the season.

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Cumberbundy Hangout Veteran Council

Cumberbundy

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3 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

I wish there was some sort of metric that put defensive, offensive, and baserunning value together so we could make a comparison between Hardy and Beckham.  Oh wait, there is the WAR metric.

Tim Beckham (2015-2017, 791PA) 2.6 fWAR (2.0/600PA), 2.5 brWAR (1.9/600PA)

J.J. Hardy (2015-2017, 1114PA) 1.6 fWAR (.9/600PA), 1.3 brWAR ( .7/600PA)

I mean it's pretty clear, and that's not even taking into consideration Beckham is just entering his prime and will be a part of the club beyond this season. While Hardy is about to turn 35 and has already been declining for multiple seasons and is a FA after the season.

If we sit Beck I'm going to wonder wth is happening. I'd hope this was discussed beforehand. 

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Cumberbundy Hangout Veteran Council

Cumberbundy

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2 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Here you go: https://www.mlb.com/video/tigers-plate-two-on-an-error/c-1684559783?tid=6479266

 

Thank you El Gordo, it won't play for me but I'll try it on another device. It plays the commercial & stalls. 

Frustrating to find out that happened. We need to be the best defensive team possible without the ability to strike people out and Gausman/Britton being our best pitchers, each who get a lot of GBs. Frustrating. Frustrating. I liked the few plays I saw, but 2 runs is obviously the game

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AlbionHero Major Leaguer

AlbionHero

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10 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Here you go: https://www.mlb.com/video/tigers-plate-two-on-an-error/c-1684559783?tid=6479266

 

I like how you ignore his homer, multiple doubles and triple in the 3 games since we got him, and just want to focus on one error. You clearly have an agenda here to think defense is all that matters for a SS so no matter what he does you'll still be on the Hardy bandwagon since he's a better fielder even if Beckhams offensive value completely overwhelms that.

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ORIOLE33 Major Leaguer Rising Star

ORIOLE33

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8 minutes ago, AlbionHero said:

I like how you ignore his homer, multiple doubles and triple in the 3 games since we got him, and just want to focus on one error. You clearly have an agenda here to think defense is all that matters for a SS so no matter what he does you'll still be on the Hardy bandwagon since he's a better fielder even if Beckhams offensive value completely overwhelms that.

Amen.

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Il BuonO Hangout Grand Counsel

Il BuonO

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16 minutes ago, AlbionHero said:

I like how you ignore his homer, multiple doubles and triple in the 3 games since we got him, and just want to focus on one error. You clearly have an agenda here to think defense is all that matters for a SS so no matter what he does you'll still be on the Hardy bandwagon since he's a better fielder even if Beckhams offensive value completely overwhelms that.

It might but it isn't a given based on his offensive performance over three games. His defense for the next three years is likely to get worse before it gets better.

I didn't like the extension for Hardy but he's always been above average with his glove.

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