Manny for Torres straight up?

[Roll Tide]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

Hard to get a GM give up a package for a one year rental.

No it isn't Rick ....The Orioles could get 2-3 prospects at the deadline. Machado is a superstar and his value is there. IMO he'd pull 2-3 of a teams top 30 at the deadline including one MLB top 50

[Redskins Rick]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

No it isn't Rick ....The Orioles could get 2-3 prospects at the deadline. Machado is a superstar and his value is there. IMO he'd pull 2-3 of a teams top 30 at the deadline including one MLB top 50

Reverse roles, put yourself in the GM shoes, you are going to give up 2-3 good prospects for a one year rental?

Sorry, I dont see it happening.

If it does, then I will eat crow and admit I dont know anything.

[ArtVanDelay]

9 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

No it isn't Rick ....The Orioles could get 2-3 prospects at the deadline. Machado is a superstar and his value is there. IMO he'd pull 2-3 of a teams top 30 at the deadline including one MLB top 50

How is that better than getting Torres?

[El Gordo]

it's not a rumor, it's just Duq XM speculating.

[Tryptamine]

11 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

How is that better than getting Torres?

Yeah, getting arguably the best prospect in the game vs the aforementioned is no decision at all.

[backwardsk]

What's Torres' timetable to return from Tommy John?  For pitchers, it can be 12-15 months.  He was injured mid June. So was Wieters in 2014.  He didn't come back until June the following year and had difficulty playing back-to-back games at the outset.

How valuable would Torres be if you have to take him off SS?

[Luke-OH]

5 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

What's Torres' timetable to return from Tommy John?  For pitchers, it can be 12-15 months.  He was injured mid June. So was Wieters in 2014.  He didn't come back until June the following year and had difficulty playing back-to-back games at the outset.

How valuable would Torres be if you have to take him off SS?

He has the arm for 3B so he'd likely be quite a good player there.  I'm not as high on him as some I think he's more of a very good player, rather than a star.  Then again that's what I thought about Manny as well, his defense turned out to be a lot better than expected. 

[oriole]

Does anyone know if a team has ever traded the face of the franchise to a division rival? I'm not the rain man of historical MLB trades but it seems that it is an unwritten law to not do exactly what were talking about here.

[24fps]

17 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

His injury is a TJS on his non-throwing arm, it's only serious in that it caused him to miss time.  

While I'd argue that the term "stark terror" is a bit hyperbolic, I am concerned that the Orioles are acting in ways that aren't beneficial to the future of the team.  I'm not old enough to have seen the Orioles golden years, the majority of my years of fandom were during the 1998-2011 dark ages.  I see the risk of falling back to those times if the team doesn't seek to make smart moves for the future rather than trying to artificially extend a window that has already perhaps closed.

I share your concern that the Orioles current window has closed and 2018 is probably a lost cause without certain moves that neither of us expect.  I believe that intelligent trades of Manny and Britton could reverse that to a great enough degree that they would be worthwhile.  Machado for Torres is not one of those deals.  I don't see the point of that trade other to prevent the possibility of being considered foolish by people who care about such things.  And there are many...

Every trade should have a goal and addressing identifiable needs is at the top of my list.  Right now the O's need better SP, better OBP and better OF defense.  If you're going to get rid of a cornerstone player, I think you're better off having something concrete to point to rather than the argument "I don't see how the O's can turn that down".  They can and they should if the sole basis to make the trade is some subjective notion of fairness, which is what this boils down to as far as I can see.  

[Luke-OH]

Just now, 24fps said:

I share your concern that the Orioles current window has closed and 2018 is probably a lost cause without certain moves that neither of us expect.  I believe that intelligent trades of Manny and Britton could reverse that to a great enough degree that they would be worthwhile.  Machado for Torres is not one of those deals.  I don't see the point of that trade other to prevent the possibility of being considered foolish by people who care about such things.  And there are many...

Every trade should have a goal and addressing identifiable needs is at the top of my list.  Right now the O's need better SP, better OBP and better OF defense.  If you're going to get rid of a cornerstone player, I think you're better off having something concrete to point to rather than the argument "I don't see how the O's can turn that down".  They can and they should if the sole basis to make the trade is some subjective notion of fairness, which is what this boils down to as far as I can see.  

The argument for a Torres trade would be that Torres is the best value that could currently be achieved in a Machado trade.

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, 24fps said:

I share your concern that the Orioles current window has closed and 2018 is probably a lost cause without certain moves that neither of us expect.  I believe that intelligent trades of Manny and Britton could reverse that to a great enough degree that they would be worthwhile.  Machado for Torres is not one of those deals.  I don't see the point of that trade other to prevent the possibility of being considered foolish by people who care about such things.  And there are many...

Every trade should have a goal and addressing identifiable needs is at the top of my list.  Right now the O's need better SP, better OBP and better OF defense.  If you're going to get rid of a cornerstone player, I think you're better off having something concrete to point to rather than the argument "I don't see how the O's can turn that down".  They can and they should if the sole basis to make the trade is some subjective notion of fairness, which is what this boils down to as far as I can see.  

No matter how much sense trading Manny and Britton for help rebuilt the future makes to some, its probably not going to happen.

The Orioles are going to give it a go and see what happens, you never know about this game, on paper, it looks bleak, and yet, you come out and go gate to gate.

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, phillyOs119 said:

The argument for a Torres trade would be that Torres is the best value that could currently be achieved in a Machado trade.

If that was the mindsight of the FO and owner, which I believe based on their past actions and comments about rebuilding, it is not going to happen.

I get it, fans love to play armchair GMs, (maybe keyboard GMs would be more appropriate).

[Luke-OH]

6 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

If that was the mindsight of the FO and owner, which I believe based on their past actions and comments about rebuilding, it is not going to happen.

I get it, fans love to play armchair GMs, (maybe keyboard GMs would be more appropriate).

I'm not interested in predicting what the team will actually do, I'm more interested in talking about what the team should do and analyzing the things the team ends up doing.  I think excusing less than optimal behavior by the front office and owner just because "well that's the way they are" is silly.  I also think being negative about everything (not accusing you of this), is not helpful either.  All I'm trying to do is add to the conversation by giving my take on whatever potential (however likely or unlikely) moves that are being talked about.  

[Moose Milligan]

The larger issue at hand here (and, IMO, the elephant in the room) is...are the Orioles ever going to pony up to keep a super-duper star talent?

We know the history of attracting blockbuster free agents.  Off the top of my head, you'd have to go back to Miguel Tejada to recall a big time, in his prime FA to come here.  We've kept guys like Roberts, Markakis, Jones, etc in the fold.  Guys that are essential pieces to a contending team.  I am not talking about attracting big time free agents.

But Manny is on a different stratosphere.  He's going to command high dollars and will probably get it from us, or most likely somewhere else.  We don't need to re-hash this, we know where the situation stands.

While this article is pure BS and half conjecture, for arguments sake let's play make believe and say it did happen.  The Orioles trade Manny to the Yankees for Gleybar and a few other prospects, but Gleybar is the centerpiece of the deal.  

Say Gleybar turns out to be everything he's touted to be.  He's a Top 10 MLB player, just like Manny.

Are we going to be doing a bunch of handwringing in 4-5 years and wondering if the Orioles are going to keep him?  Or are we going to resign to the fact that we'll have to trade him for a package of prospects or end up letting him walk?  Are the Orioles ever going to pony up to keep a super-duper star talent?  

[wildbillhiccup]

16 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

The larger issue at hand here (and, IMO, the elephant in the room) is...are the Orioles ever going to pony up to keep a super-duper star talent?

We know the history of attracting blockbuster free agents.  Off the top of my head, you'd have to go back to Miguel Tejada to recall a big time, in his prime FA to come here.  We've kept guys like Roberts, Markakis, Jones, etc in the fold.  Guys that are essential pieces to a contending team.  I am not talking about attracting big time free agents.

But Manny is on a different stratosphere.  He's going to command high dollars and will probably get it from us, or most likely somewhere else.  We don't need to re-hash this, we know where the situation stands.

While this article is pure BS and half conjecture, for arguments sake let's play make believe and say it did happen.  The Orioles trade Manny to the Yankees for Gleybar and a few other prospects, but Gleybar is the centerpiece of the deal.  

Say Gleybar turns out to be everything he's touted to be.  He's a Top 10 MLB player, just like Manny.

Are we going to be doing a bunch of handwringing in 4-5 years and wondering if the Orioles are going to keep him?  Or are we going to resign to the fact that we'll have to trade him for a package of prospects or end up letting him walk?  Are the Orioles ever going to pony up to keep a super-duper star talent?  

They did, they just missed on the talent part (i.e., Chris Davis).