Orioles youth movement

[Ohfan67]

I missed O'Day! So Jones is the second oldest player. 

[zjsmith]

It's only a youth movement if you cut bait and go all in (like the Astros). That means 95-100 loss seasons for a few years. I am new here but I don't see that sitting well with Orioles' fans. Problem is if you mix playing the younger guys with what they have pretty soon it is 4 years later, no playoffs (maybe a wildcard game), young guys are now late 20s and Orioles are no where nearer a championship. JMHO.

[NCRaven]

1 minute ago, zjsmith said:

It's only a youth movement if you cut bait and go all in (like the Astros). That means 95-100 loss seasons for a few years. I am new here but I don't see that sitting well with Orioles' fans. 

I doubt it went down well with most Houston fans - at the time.  Also, a total rebuild after suffering multiple 90+ loss seasons does not guarantee anything close to Astros-like success.  Some rebuilds work and some are not.  Drafting and developing young baseball players is a fickle thing.

[wildcard]

11 hours ago, zjsmith said:

It's only a youth movement if you cut bait and go all in (like the Astros). That means 95-100 loss seasons for a few years. I am new here but I don't see that sitting well with Orioles' fans. Problem is if you mix playing the younger guys with what they have pretty soon it is 4 years later, no playoffs (maybe a wildcard game), young guys are now late 20s and Orioles are no where nearer a championship. JMHO.

Astros youth movement and the O's youth movement are two different approaches.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Ohfan67 said:

 I do appreciate that DD has largely avoided the really horrible signings of over-the-hill players that the O's were so fond of in the past. He's signed older players to minor league deals and the like, but nothing like some of the geriatrics that seemed so abundant in the early 2000's. I guess he's too fond of Rule 5 picks and the like to invest too many roster spots into geriatrics. 

This is very true.    As recently as MacPhail’s last year we had 36-year old Vlad Guerrero and 35-year old Derek Lee on the roster.    The year before that we had 36-year old Miguel Tejada.    Duquette has preferred giving younger players a chance.    Of course, he signed O’Day and Davis through age 36, but those are different from signing a guy who’s already old and showing significant signs of going downhill.

[panick]

Just now, Ohfan67 said:

Side note: Jones is the oldest player on the roster. I thought Trumbo and Davis were older, but they are a year younger than Adam. I'm as frustrated with DD, Angelos, and the Orioles middling as much as most, but I do appreciate that DD has largely avoided the really horrible signings of over-the-hill players that the O's were so fond of in the past. He's signed older players to minor league deals and the like, but nothing like some of the geriatrics that seemed so abundant in the early 2000's. I guess he's too fond of Rule 5 picks and the like to invest too many roster spots into geriatrics. 

The off-season isn't over yet.

[sportsfan8703]

12 hours ago, wildcard said:

O's could be entering a youth movement this spring.   Look at some of the possibilities. ( ages are 2018 baseball ages)

Hays (23) right field likely  2018 top 100 prospect 

Sisco (23) sharing starting catching duties might be 2018, #30 2017 prospect

Castro (23) starter/reliever

Santander (23) Rule 5  OF/DH

Cortes (23) Rule 5  long reliever/starter

If Manny (25) is traded to the Yankees:

Andujar (23) third base #92 2017 prospect

Adams  (23) # 53 2017 prospect  or Sheffield (22)  #80 2017 prospect as starter

Other O's prospects that may see time with the O's this season

Harvey (23) 2015 #41 prospect 

Mullins (23) 

24 year olds Scott, Stewart,  Ramirez, Meisinger, Hess 

24 year old Rule 5 Mesa and Araujo

 

 

 

 

Haha. Manny is only 2 years older than Hunter Harvey. Really puts things in perspective. 

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, zjsmith said:

It's only a youth movement if you cut bait and go all in (like the Astros). That means 95-100 loss seasons for a few years. I am new here but I don't see that sitting well with Orioles' fans. Problem is if you mix playing the younger guys with what they have pretty soon it is 4 years later, no playoffs (maybe a wildcard game), young guys are now late 20s and Orioles are no where nearer a championship. JMHO.

A few seasons of losing turns into 14 around here really quick. That’s too fresh in everyone’s mind for a complete rebuild. Plus the Nats exist. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

A few seasons of losing turns into 14 around here really quick. That’s too fresh in everyone’s mind for a complete rebuild. Plus the Nats exist. 

You could make the case that the lack of a complete rebuild had a lot to do with the steak of losing seasons lasting 14 years.  Too many half measures.

[Frobby]

30 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You could make the case that the lack of a complete rebuild had a lot to do with the steak of losing seasons lasting 14 years.  Too many half measures.

Or, just really poorly executed.    And in my opinion, a rebuild takes both skill and good fortune (draft picks and prospects picked up in trades actually panning out and not getting hurt).    When your top pick doesn’t pan out for 5-6 years in a row, and the guys you pick up in deadline deals turn out to be duds, that makes it tough.    

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

Or, just really poorly executed.    And in my opinion, a rebuild takes both skill and good fortune (draft picks and prospects picked up in trades actually panning out and not getting hurt).    When your top pick doesn’t pan out for 5-6 years in a row, and the guys you pick up in deadline deals turn out to be duds, that makes it tough.    

From 1997-2006 they had one pick in the top 5.  Not that you can't miss in the top 5 but your odds are certainly better.  Once they started picking in the top 5 they ended up with five major leaguers out of six picks.

[backwardsk]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

From 1997-2006 they had one pick in the top 5.  Not that you can't miss in the top 5 but your odds are certainly better.  Once they started picking in the top 5 they ended up with five major leaguers out of six picks.

But we had 18 first rounders from 96-06 play for us.

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

From 1997-2006 they had one pick in the top 5.  Not that you can't miss in the top 5 but your odds are certainly better.  Once they started picking in the top 5 they ended up with five major leaguers out of six picks.

The O’s really didn’t attempt a rebuild until they traded a bunch of players in August 2000.   Up to then, they were under the delusion that they were competing.   That series of trades yielded Melvin Mora and nothing else.

I think you can say the O’s were attempting a rebuild from then through 2003.   Then they went into “go for it” mode for 2 years, but blew that by failing to sign Vlad, wasting money on Ponson, and choosing Javy Lopez over Pudge Rodriguez.    Then Raffygate hit in 2005, but it took 2 more years before MacPhail put the team into rebuild mode again.   

I can’t disagree that the O’s were taking half-measures at various times.    

[Can_of_corn]

2001 Orioles: Ripken, Anderson, Bordick, DeShields, Segui

2002 Orioles:   Bordick, Conine, Segui

2003 Orioles: Conine, Segui, Hentgen, Surhoff (4 of 9 position players were 30 or over, 3 of the 6 starters were 31 or older)  You don't rebuild with guys over 30.

[sangar]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

A few seasons of losing turns into 14 around here really quick.

Nope. Those 14 years were anything but "quick".