Who’s our GM & Manager Next Year?

[tntoriole]

3 minutes ago, foxfield said:

 

In a way, I take issue with both sides here.   TNT, I didn't give credit to AM in my above post, but my post was not about credit as much as it was about how much losing has occurred in the last 25 years.  But I supported AM when he was here and defend him still.  He laid a foundation that allowed DD to be successful.  That said, his tenure did more to regain some respect within baseball that is still below where it was when you and I first became Oriole fans.  Andy Macphail did not hire Buck Showalter or more accurately did so when he was told to do so.  But that is not relevant...both men deserve credit but it's tricky to stretch who did what based on acquisition.  Mark Trumbo is a perfect example.  His acquisition was brilliant and worked to perfection.  It should have meant that Trumbo replaced Chris Davis but alas that did not happen and then Trumbo leaving did not happen....he was resigned, which could still work, but is pretty deep in a hole today.  There are moves I lay at DD's feet and you laid them out well last night.  But I don't blame him for resigning Trumbo, or signing Davis.

My point is AM's teams were terrible and while that suckitude produced Matt Wieters and Manny Machado, the losses were unbearable.  The trade of Bedard is legendary and pays dividends today.   DD said he would win from day one and has delivered.  He may well leave the team in a bad spot and I have said repeatedly his final grade is still to be determined.  But the facts are he has delivered 4 winning seasons, 1 .500 season and this years losing season.  The 19 years that preceded him produced 15 losing seasons.  I also said, I would be open to a change...so in your words, I may not extend him either.  I simply believe that we easily dismiss him, when the indisputable fact is he is the most successful GM in the Angelos era.

Cimota, TNT makes the very fair and reasonable point that any "credit" to DD has to acknowledge some foundational work done by AM.  As I try to say above, it is dangerous to say for example that everyone was here already.  I say this because DD could have traded any of those folks and as his detractors point out traded perhaps some folks who kept him from getting us back to the WS.  I think THAT criticism is fair.  I think the debate on credit is fair, but I think acquisition is not really the ideal way to make that determination.

Finally, If DD left today, without signing a pitcher or anyone else to go with this roster, the team, and the farm are better than when he got here.  As Frobby points out above, even with the Oriole specific "issues" this job will be easier for the next guy. All of that said, we are in a sticky situation between trying to compete and trying to rebuild and trading say Manny or all of our prospects for one or two starters could rework the above opinion.  Its an unfinished job and I appreciate the desire to have a new GM...but any fair comparison of DD to his Peter Angelos companions is favorable, even if you ding him for not resigning like Hemond and Gillick.

A good post.  Thanks.  If the team finishes last in 2018, 2019,  or 2020  and if they finish first in 2018, 2019, or 2020 then I will, either way,  revisit my grades regarding Duquette’s tenure.    I also think that Dan’s performance in 2012-2014 was significantly better than it has been in the time since the winter of 2014 after we won the division.  And I admit that I have had a bit of difficulty getting past the Toronto situation occurring right at that same time that our window was at its highest peak ever from 2012 till now. 

 

[Redskins Rick]

11 hours ago, cimota said:

DD won't be back next year because he won't want the job.  He tried to leave once and Angelo's wouldn't let him.   He should be able to get a job with another team where he will have more control. 

How much of that, was DD wanted out, or he listened to an offer for employement elsewhere?

Heck, I am happy where I am at, that doesn't mean, I have listened when a serious offer came my way.

[atomic]

On 1/25/2018 at 7:26 AM, Redskins Rick said:

How much of that, was DD wanted out, or he listened to an offer for employement elsewhere?

Heck, I am happy where I am at, that doesn't mean, I have listened when a serious offer came my way.

Do you think you would be happy in DD's situation?  Where you have a former player, the manager, and the owner's sons all having a huge influence on  decisions that appear to be everyone to be yours.  And an owner who takes forever to approve your decisions.  There is a reason that the team had to hire someone who had been out of baseball for 10 years.  DD hasn't been out of baseball for 10 years.  Other teams know DD has to deal with and see he has improved the organization.  I don't think he will have a hard time finding another job with more autonomy.  

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, cimota said:

Do you think you would be happy in DD's situation?  Where you have a former player, the manager, and the owner's sons all having a huge influence on  decisions that appear to be everyone to be yours.  And an owner who takes forever to approve your decisions.  There is a reason that the team had to hire someone who had been out of baseball for 10 years.  DD hasn't been out of baseball for 10 years.  Other teams know DD has to deal with and see he has improved the organization.  I don't think he will have a hard time finding another job with more autonomy.  

We’ll see soon enough.   

[El Gordo]

On 1/24/2018 at 4:26 PM, Frobby said:

I’m not convinced that our GM job will be as hard to fill in 2018 as it was in 2011.     Yes there are still major issues, but (1) we haven’t had 14 losing seasons in a row, (2) several of the characters who were part of the pre-2011 dysfunction have been cleared out and anyone hired by Duquette would be subject to replacement at the new GM’s whim, and (3) it’s been established that it’s possible to build a winning team here.  This still might not be at the top of prospective GMs’ list of places to go, but it’s not like the better jobs open up all that often.    

Dan will find another job but it may not be a GM

[foxfield]

 

24 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

Dan will find another job but it may not be a GM

It’s entirely possible he takes a job that is a bit easier. Like brokering peace in the Middle East. 

[El Gordo]

17 minutes ago, foxfield said:

 

It’s entirely possible he takes a job that is a bit easier. Like brokering peace in the Middle East. 

Well he'd have a leg up there. https://www.israel21c.org/an-israeli-field-of-dreams/

[ThomasTomasz]

3 hours ago, El Gordo said:

Dan will find another job but it may not be a GM

The Jays wanted him two years ago to oversee their entire operations, which included the business side as well as the baseball side.  Angelos dug his heels in, and the Jays and Orioles couldn't agree on compensation.  This was just three years after DD took over the Orioles, and seemed to be making move after move to find this player on the dumpster pile, get that player at a bargain, etc.  All from a guy who was out of baseball for most than a decade. 

Considering he has made public this winter what constraints that ownership puts on him- specifically with pitcher contracts, payroll and especially with how the team approaches the international/posting market- DD will find a job in short order, and maybe something that ends up being a promotion.  Angelos got away on a technicality where teams are usually forced to allow their execs to interview for promotions, but since DD is already at the top of the organization with how Angelos constructs it, MLB couldn't force the issue.  

Anyway, I digress.  I see another Duquette/Flanagan situation arising here if Angelos doesn't extend DD, where Showalter and Anderson are made co-GMs.  It didn't work the first time, and I don't expect it to work again, but something tells me we are going to go down this route again.  And then we will be limited in who we hire to be the manager of this club, because who is going to want to go to work for two GMs, who up until taking the job were intricately involved in the clubhouse- one managing the club, the other having a locker there.  

[section18]

Joe Girardi ?

John Farrell ?

Tony Pena ?

Willie Randoph ?

Joe McEwing ?

Manny Acta ?

Ron Wotus ?

Fred Gonzalez ?

David Ross ?

Ross, Wotus and McEwing are not big names but future managers! When ? Mickey Callaway is a star with pitchers and a sleeper pick a year ago with these three names. Where is he now? Managing the Mets and doing a great job.  Currently 12-3 and their staff is improved.  How many people know who the current Mets manager is? Some will say Brady Anderson. Maybe !  Girardi ? Only if the warehouse thinks they need a big name.  Buck's time here is nearing an end it seems.  Refusal to make the needed changes and sticking with veterans too long will be his downfall. Girardi or Ross two ex-catchers could be in line along with Ron Wotus of the Giants.

[mdbdotcom]

Carlos Beltran

[VaBird1]

Chris Davis needs something to do that doesn’t take up a roster spot.

[DirtyBird]

Buck Britton

[Mayor McCheese]

We need to fire Dan like yesterday.  Get a solid GM in here and start making some moves.  Then we can see how Buck is and take it from there.

[Going Underground]

21 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Buck Britton

Keep the Buck line moving. The Buck Martinez and John Buck.

[Moose Milligan]

It's a fine line between a retread and a young up and comer that's intriguing but unproven.

As I've been saying recently though, the next manager doesn't really matter unless there's a better roster in place.  If the Orioles have a 70 win roster type in place next season I'd be more inclined to try out a Gabe Kapler type who has no idea what he's doing instead of someone more proven.