Hall of Fame Inductees:

[ORIOLE33]

For whatever reason, people seem to forget that Pettite is as much connected to steroids as Bonds, Clemens, ARod, Palmeiro, Sosa and others. 

For the record, I think they all should be in, but if you’re going to put one in, you put them all in.

[incubus]

8 hours ago, SteveA said:

Piniella's not in the HOF, is he?   I think he had an at bat with the O's.

Negative. Not HOF mgr. did play for the Os though.

[25 Nuggets]

Nice to see the deck cleared with a four player writers' class in addition to two Vets Committee electees.

Chipper Jones is one of those guys where you just say, "elected - next candidate".  He's right there with Schmidt, Mathews, Brett, Brooks, and Boggs as a great 3B.  As deep as the 3B position is today with terrific players - I wonder who will filter out from the rest as the great ones.

Vlad should have been elected last year.  He is the best bad-ball hitter I've ever seen.  An opinion shared by many.  He had a silly strong arm.  I really wish the Orioles had signed him instead of the Angels - by the time he came to Baltimore he was on the 18th hole.

Thome - man got lost amidst all the insane offensive numbers of the Steroid Era, to the tune of a "mere" 5 All Star games and not many MVP votes.  But here he is.

We'll see back to back closers elected in Hoffman / Rivera after having so few until now (the last was Goose Gossage in 2008).  They are so far ahead of the pack in volume that I doubt we'll see another for a long time.  That said, attention will turn to Billy Wagner, who was better per-season than Hoffman but retired early.

Alan Trammell was simply overlooked by the BBWAA but is absolutely deserving of enshrinement -- he is basically the same player Barry Larkin was, both in the 7-10 range of best SS ever to play.

Morris... well, I never supported him.  But I am a quasi-large Hall guy -- I'd rather see a Hall with Morris and other VC electees who really needed to be in (Sam Crawford, Johnny Mize, Home Run Baker, all the managers and executives and the Negro League players) than vice-versa.

---------------------

Next season we'll see Mariano Rivera receive one of the higher vote % in memory, and Edgar Martinez should get the extra 20-ish votes he needs to rightfully join the HOF.  Beyond that I don't know.  If the number of names per ballot stays consistent, that means three spots open up on each ballot (with Rivera essentially replacing Jones).  Roy Halladay and Todd Helton should easily clear the 5% bar to remain on the ballot but I don't know where they'll end up.  Roy Oswalt and Lance Berkman deserve to clear 5% but may not.  Then there's Andy Pettitte.  I'll be real interested to see where he falls.

Next year, then, will be an opportunity for the other candidates not tied to PEDs -- Mike Mussina will get very close to 75%, Curt Schilling should have gains, and don't be surprised to see Larry Walker clear 50% especially with Helton on the ballot, because Walker was the better player.  Walker is a pet of mine because I think he is unfairly treated for playing in Coors Field - take him out of Coors Field and he's still a Hall of Famer.

The one guy I feel bad about through this process is Fred McGriff.  The guy should be in.  He made a HOF impact and his trades resonated (remember McGriff for Alomar?).  And all indications are he was clean - which really hurt his numbers against such engorged competition.  I bet like Alan Trammell, he gets a hefty boost to his total on the last year of eligibility.  Ultimately I think he will be elected by the Modern Era Vets Committee.

[Redskins Rick]

12 hours ago, tntoriole said:

The emotional bump from his tragic death got him over the line for me...but it is borderline first ballot. 

Tragic death yes, but now autopsy showed he had drugs in his system.

He should not have been flying.

I think that cancels out the emotional bump. IMO

His career WAR is only 65, and for those writers using that as a barometer, going to be a hard sell for him.

 

[foxfield]

9 hours ago, atomic said:

The hall of fame is a joke without Clemens,  Bonds, and Rose in. 

I am not comfortable saying the Hall of Fame is a joke without Clemens, Bonds and Rose.  It sucks to have this situation, but the Hall of Fame is not a joke.  First, let's place the blame where it belongs.  On players first for crossing the line and on the baseball second and regarding steroids, on the writers and yes even us as fans.  With Rose, baseball literally banned him and HOF merely respects baseballs wishes.  For Clemens and Bonds, their direct links to steroids stains not only them, but the game.  The fact that the game knowingly looked away and the very voters who name the HOF members looked away completely explains this conundrum.  But the HOF is not a joke and did not create this mess.

 

In order of preference, I would like to see Shoeless Joe Jackson in, then Rose.  My preference would be for the HOF to not ban, but acknowledge Bonds, Clemens and Aroid proactively in a special class removing them from the vote bringing them into the Hall without pomp and circumstance or without ever inviting them to participate.

To me, that would address all of the issues properly.  Yes, there are others who either will get in who were dirty or will be excluded for being dirty.  There is no perfect solution, I saw all three of these guys play.  I saw Bonds hit one of his HR in Baltimore.  I saw Clemens flip the bird in Baltimore, and saw Aroid with all three of his teams in Baltimore.  These guys cheated in the worst way, but were also among the best to ever play.  I also saw Cal Ripken, Jr. inducted along with Tony Gwynn.

To me, the proper and only way to fix this situation is to take all three of them, along with Rose and Shoeless Joe in a special class, between this years induction and next years vote and simply announce the following:

 

The National Baseball Hall of Fame wishes to announce the recognition of the following players for their historic performance on the field of play during their careers.  Though circumstances around each of them cast aspersion upon their names and even the game itself, their accomplishments on the field will always be discussed with the hallowed members of this shrine.  We therefore, place the following plaques in this special acknowledgment class without further ado nor without additional membership privileges these names:

Shoeless Joe Jackson, Peter Edward Rose, William Roger Clemens, Barry Lamar Bonds, Alexander Emmanuel Rodriguez

*  The plaque will be like any other plaque in the Hall except each of these men will be without hats of any MLB team. 

 

 

Edit to add:  I do not include David Ortiz or Sammy Sosa as it is my opinion that without steroids, neither of them have any potential for HOF consideration.  Clemens, Bonds and Arod, whether you like them or not do.  Yes, this would mean for me neither of Ortiz or Sosa would ever get in.

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Tragic death yes, but now autopsy showed he had drugs in his system.

He should not have been flying.

I think that cancels out the emotional bump. IMO

His career WAR is only 65, and for those writers using that as a barometer, going to be a hard sell for him.

 

He’s one of those guys who didn’t pitch that long, but was utterly dominant for about a ten year period.   From 2002-11 he was 175-70, 148 ERA+, threw 2,197 innings (leading the league 4 times) and threw 63 complete games (leading the league 7 times).    There were several years where he personally had more complete games than most of the teams in the league.   He was worth 62.4 rWAR over those ten years.  I think that very high and fairly sustained peak warrants admission into the Hall.

[Redskins Rick]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He’s one of those guys who didn’t pitch that long, but was utterly dominant for about a ten year period.   From 2002-11 he was 175-70, 148 ERA+, threw 2,197 innings (leading the league 4 times) and threw 63 complete games (leading the league 7 times).    There were several years where he personally had more complete games than most of the teams in the league.   He was worth 62.4 rWAR over those ten years.  I think that very high and fairly sustained peak warrants admission into the Hall.

He was a great pitcher, and I have no problem with his getting into the hall.

I just said, I though it would be a hard sell, based on how the idiot writers who get to vote, think.

[Dexter Morgan]

14 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Pettite will only get in because he was a Yankee. I think he is going to have a hard time, Mussina is better and it's been a struggle for him so far.  If Pettite spent his career with the Brewers, he wouldn't have a chance. 

If there was some pro Yankee bias, don't you think Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada wouldn't off fell off the ballot on their first try? Posada was arguably the 2nd best hitting catcher of his generation after Piazza. Bernie Williams one of the best all around center fielders of his generation. (won a batting title) 

[Dexter Morgan]

9 hours ago, ORIOLE33 said:

For whatever reason, people seem to forget that Pettite is as much connected to steroids as Bonds, Clemens, ARod, Palmeiro, Sosa and others. 

For the record, I think they all should be in, but if you’re going to put one in, you put them all in.

They put Ivan Rodriguez in, flood gates should open. 

[wildbillhiccup]

13 minutes ago, Dexter Morgan said:

If there was some pro Yankee bias, don't you think Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada wouldn't off fell off the ballot on their first try? Posada was arguably the 2nd best hitting catcher of his generation after Piazza. Bernie Williams one of the best all around center fielders of his generation. (won a batting title) 

Bernie Williams IS NOT a HOFer. Not even close. 

[jamalshw]

2 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Bernie Williams IS NOT a HOFer. Not even close. 

I'm a proponent of a larger hall, but I agree completely. Bernie is a Yankee HOFer, but not a baseball HOFer. His numbers are much below Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds and a load of other one-and-done guys.

[Dexter Morgan]

24 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

I'm a proponent of a larger hall, but I agree completely. Bernie is a Yankee HOFer, but not a baseball HOFer. His numbers are much below Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds and a load of other one-and-done guys.

So you all think the writers treated him fairly. And didn't keep him on the ballot simply bc he's a Yankees.

Thanks, that was my point, not that Bernie was a HOFer. 

[jamalshw]

1 minute ago, Dexter Morgan said:

So you all think the writers cheated him fairly. And didn't keep him on the ballot simply bc he's a Yankees.

Thanks, that was my point, not that Bernie was a HOFer.

I think he got a little bump. He got 9.6% on the first ballot before falling off on the second ballot. I'd put Lofton and Edmonds ahead of him in CF and Lofton and Edmonds were both one-and-done.

[Nite]

49 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

I think he got a little bump. He got 9.6% on the first ballot before falling off on the second ballot. I'd put Lofton and Edmonds ahead of him in CF and Lofton and Edmonds were both one-and-done.

So what that means based on that information is the "Yankee bump" is roughly 5-7% at most. Hardly enough to move the lines on getting someone in.

[CP0861]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

He’s one of those guys who didn’t pitch that long, but was utterly dominant for about a ten year period.   From 2002-11 he was 175-70, 148 ERA+, threw 2,197 innings (leading the league 4 times) and threw 63 complete games (leading the league 7 times).    There were several years where he personally had more complete games than most of the teams in the league.   He was worth 62.4 rWAR over those ten years.  I think that very high and fairly sustained peak warrants admission into the Hall.

He's 1st ballot in my opinion.  8x AS.  2 CY awards, 1 in each league.  Won 20 games 3 times (in both leagues).  Finished top 5 in CY voting for 6 straight years and 7/9 from 2003-11.  He was a beast. 

Glavine went first ballot (easily), I don't see how Halladay doesn't.  But....who knows.