Schoop absence from Fanfest

[MikeAD]

2 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

If you think that's depressing, imagine how depressing it will be when Manny and Schoop leave for nothing and we are even more screwed in 2020 onward.

Wel by then we will be preparing to lose Gausman and Bundy will be in the Schoop position. We have a lot to look forward to as Oriole fans. 

[Yardball85]

Just now, MikeAD said:

Wel by then we will be preparing to lose Gausman and Bundy will be in the Schoop position. We have a lot to look forward to as Oriole fans. 

Yet, if they just punted this year and got young controllable talent for Machado and Schoop, they could be looking to field a competitive team in 2020-2021 depending on how close that talent is.  Then who knows, maybe you extend Bundy/Gausman.

The stagnant, refusal to do ANYTHING this offseason, is the worst of the worst paths to take.  It reeks of incompetence.

[atomic]

7 minutes ago, MikeAD said:

Wel by then we will be preparing to lose Gausman and Bundy will be in the Schoop position. We have a lot to look forward to as Oriole fans. 

We have a lot of young guys ready to come up.  I don't see what is to get all depressed about.  In 2010 Ty Wigginton was our All-Star rep.  And we had such standouts as César Izturis  and Felix Pie as starters.  Our last 2 first round picks were Brian Matusz with the fourth overall and Matt Hobgood with the #5 overall.  

[24fps]

32 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Yet, if they just punted this year and got young controllable talent for Machado and Schoop, they could be looking to field a competitive team in 2020-2021 depending on how close that talent is.  Then who knows, maybe you extend Bundy/Gausman.

The stagnant, refusal to do ANYTHING this offseason, is the worst of the worst paths to take.  It reeks of incompetence.

Maybe as soon as 2019 if things break right and the bar isn't set too high.  I might hold off trading Schoop until after 2018 when team needs might be clearer.

I agree with the strategy of trading Machado now and I support moving Schoop after the season unless someone really overpays before then.  However if the Orioles decide to hold on to existing talent for 2018 it isn't necessarily a sign of incompetence.  In fact it probably isn't, it's just a philosophy that's different than yours, one that places a high value on putting the best team possible on the field every year.  There's nothing wrong with that and probably the vast majority of fans - fans not as obsessed as we are -  believe that's normal anyway.

Then there's the inconvenient habit of owners checking current revenue streams on a regular basis to consider that makes it a business proposition as much as a sporting one.

[Can_of_corn]

45 minutes ago, cimota said:

We have a lot of young guys ready to come up.  I don't see what is to get all depressed about.  In 2010 Ty Wigginton was our All-Star rep.  And we had such standouts as César Izturis  and Felix Pie as starters.  Our last 2 first round picks were Brian Matusz with the fourth overall and Matt Hobgood with the #5 overall.  

I don't see the current regime repeating the Hobgood mistake.

[Yardball85]

8 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Maybe as soon as 2019 if things break right and the bar isn't set too high.  I might hold off trading Schoop until after 2018 when team needs might be clearer.

I agree with the strategy of trading Machado now and I support moving Schoop after the season unless someone really overpays before then.  However if the Orioles decide to hold on to existing talent for 2018 it isn't necessarily a sign of incompetence.  In fact it probably isn't, it's just a philosophy that's different than yours, one that places a high value on putting the best team possible on the field every year.  There's nothing wrong with that and probably the vast majority of fans - fans not as obsessed as we are -  believe that's normal anyway.

Then there's the inconvenient habit of owners checking current revenue streams on a regular basis to consider that makes it a business proposition as much as a sporting one.

I agree with you that holding onto the talent this year isn't incompetent.  I disagree, but it isn't incompetent.  What is incompetent to me is the fact that they have done absolutely nothing to improve the team for next year.  If you can't/won't sign pitchers for four years, make trades.  Get creative.  Offer incentive-laiden contracts to guys who may have fallen off a bit.  If you want to field a competitive team, then field a competitive team.  

But doing nothing at all?  That's incompetent.

[Yardball85]

47 minutes ago, cimota said:

We have a lot of young guys ready to come up.  I don't see what is to get all depressed about.  In 2010 Ty Wigginton was our All-Star rep.  And we had such standouts as César Izturis  and Felix Pie as starters.  Our last 2 first round picks were Brian Matusz with the fourth overall and Matt Hobgood with the #5 overall.  

I agree that our position players are much better than they were in 2010.  So, if you want to compete this year, do something.  MAke creative trades.

 

Even the 2009 Orioles got creative in trading for Rich Hill.  In 2010 they traded for Kevin Millwood, who no one expected to be as bad as he was.  Although they didn't work out, they have in the past signed Johan Santana and that Oakland pitcher in 2011 who was always hurt (name is escaping me).  If you don't want to hand out 4 year contracts to pitchers, find another way.

[MikeAD]

44 minutes ago, cimota said:

We have a lot of young guys ready to come up.  I don't see what is to get all depressed about.  In 2010 Ty Wigginton was our All-Star rep.  And we had such standouts as César Izturis  and Felix Pie as starters.  Our last 2 first round picks were Brian Matusz with the fourth overall and Matt Hobgood with the #5 overall.  

Eh, thats kind of the thing though.  First of all, we don't have a lot of young players ready to come up.  We have a few but our farm system is in the bottom 3rd at best.  You are relying on a small handful of prospects to reach and exceed their potential just for the Orioles to stay where they are today, which is at the bottom of the division  Yeah we have better players that Wigginton but we will have a team with 4-6 Wigginton's because we won't look at our problems, play to our strengths, and build a team.  If you can't compete for Free Agents you need to bring in a ton of young talent.  We don't even dabble in international markets.  We draft poorly.  But even if we drafted 100% and got it right every year, IT WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH!!  Look at the White Sox, look at the Rays.  The White Sox completely re-did the team to build up the farm.  The Astros just did that.  The Rays have been doing it for years.  Trading Manny, Brach, Britton and Extending/Trading Schoop would not make us compete NOW but would bring us a step closer to competing in the coming years  It would build up a farm system that has been lacking for years, even though DD has made it much better than it was, and AM before him.  Nobody is saying the team is doom and gloom now...well I am sort of. We will be lucky to win 3rd place in the AL East, but thats only if Toronto fails horribly.  Im more so talking about the near and medium future.  It is incredibly bleak.  It will be even more bleak when we let these guys walk and have nothing to show for it.  

Thanks for the reminder on Matusz and Hobgood and how poorly we draft year after year.  All the more argument for us to be trading off assets and adding multiple talented players whenever we can, constantly to cover these terrible faults. 

[atomic]

53 minutes ago, MikeAD said:

Eh, thats kind of the thing though.  First of all, we don't have a lot of young players ready to come up.  We have a few but our farm system is in the bottom 3rd at best.  You are relying on a small handful of prospects to reach and exceed their potential just for the Orioles to stay where they are today, which is at the bottom of the division  Yeah we have better players that Wigginton but we will have a team with 4-6 Wigginton's because we won't look at our problems, play to our strengths, and build a team.  If you can't compete for Free Agents you need to bring in a ton of young talent.  We don't even dabble in international markets.  We draft poorly.  But even if we drafted 100% and got it right every year, IT WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH!!  Look at the White Sox, look at the Rays.  The White Sox completely re-did the team to build up the farm.  The Astros just did that.  The Rays have been doing it for years.  Trading Manny, Brach, Britton and Extending/Trading Schoop would not make us compete NOW but would bring us a step closer to competing in the coming years  It would build up a farm system that has been lacking for years, even though DD has made it much better than it was, and AM before him.  Nobody is saying the team is doom and gloom now...well I am sort of. We will be lucky to win 3rd place in the AL East, but thats only if Toronto fails horribly.  Im more so talking about the near and medium future.  It is incredibly bleak.  It will be even more bleak when we let these guys walk and have nothing to show for it.  

Thanks for the reminder on Matusz and Hobgood and how poorly we draft year after year.  All the more argument for us to be trading off assets and adding multiple talented players whenever we can, constantly to cover these terrible faults. 

The guys drafting Matusz and Hobgood are gone.  We are not in the bottom third in the league in prospects.  We have guys like Cisco, Hays, Mountcastle that could start in the big leagues either this year or next.  Over a 20 year period before Manny came up we probably had 3 position players drafted and entered the league and started at any level of production: Roberts, Markakis and Wieters.  Our bullpen is strong.  There are some positives. 

 

[MikeAD]

1 minute ago, cimota said:

The guys drafting Matusz and Hobgood are gone.  We are not in the bottom third in the league in prospects.  We have guys like Cisco, Hays, Mountcastle that could start in the big leagues either this year or next.  Over a 20 year period before Manny came up we probably had 3 position players drafted and entered the league and started at any level of production: Roberts, Markakis and Wieters.  Our bullpen is strong.  There are some positives. 

 

The bullpen is strong on paper but there are injuries and all of this will only  escalate considering we have 2 major league starters right now.  The Bullpen is going to be taxed and dead early on.  

Farm systems.  Bleacher Report has us at 20 out of 30, BA has us at 17th etc, so im comfortable saying we are bottom 3rd, especially when such a high percentage of top ranked prospects are international/amateur signings, which the Orioles flat out refuse to do.  

I'm not trying to be negative all the time. I've done all that I can do.  I have bought a partial plan for years and years (since 2004?).  I go to the games I can every year, give the rest as gifts, and the rest get donated to a charity I work with in Baltimore.  This year I've canceled MLB.TV, I did not get those season tickets, I made a donation to that charity, and I will be seeing the Orioles a few times on the road when I can work it in.  I will not give this team (really his owner) any of my money until this team is serious about putting a MLB product on the field year after year.  Folks who want to look at the team with optimism..thats fine, but the walls are also closing in and the future is very bleak.  If fans just keep the status quo youre only adding zeros to this Angelos and his descendants.   I love the Orioles, I want the Orioles to be good, the city needs it.  Im angry and Im not going to hope for rainbows and unicorn farts when we have two professional starting pitchers.  

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, MikeAD said:

The bullpen is strong on paper but there are injuries and all of this will only  escalate considering we have 2 major league starters right now.  The Bullpen is going to be taxed and dead early on.  

Farm systems.  Bleacher Report has us at 20 out of 30, BA has us at 17th etc, so im comfortable saying we are bottom 3rd, especially when such a high percentage of top ranked prospects are international/amateur signings, which the Orioles flat out refuse to do.  

I'm not trying to be negative all the time. I've done all that I can do.  I have bought a partial plan for years and years (since 2004?).  I go to the games I can every year, give the rest as gifts, and the rest get donated to a charity I work with in Baltimore.  This year I've canceled MLB.TV, I did not get those season tickets, I made a donation to that charity, and I will be seeing the Orioles a few times on the road when I can work it in.  I will not give this team (really his owner) any of my money until this team is serious about putting a MLB product on the field year after year.  Folks who want to look at the team with optimism..thats fine, but the walls are also closing in and the future is very bleak.  If fans just keep the status quo youre only adding zeros to this Angelos and his descendants.   I love the Orioles, I want the Orioles to be good, the city needs it.  Im angry and Im not going to hope for rainbows and unicorn farts when we have two professional starting pitchers.  

Well its not like other teams have signed starting pitchers. Blame it on Boras. He is refusing to have his guys sign contracts and it is holding up the rest of the market.  I expect us to sign somebody or trade for someone. If we don't it will be a long year.  But if you have been watching a season ticket holder since 2004 you have paid to see much worse teams.  Some of those teams seemed like they didn't even know what base to throw it to. 

[MikeAD]

4 minutes ago, cimota said:

Well its not like other teams have signed starting pitchers. Blame it on Boras. He is refusing to have his guys sign contracts and it is holding up the rest of the market.  I expect us to sign somebody or trade for someone. If we don't it will be a long year.  But if you have been watching a season ticket holder since 2004 you have paid to see much worse teams.  Some of those teams seemed like they didn't even know what base to throw it to. 

So we should be a last place team because we were bad before?  My line in the sand was trading Manny.  If they had extended him I would have backed off and been ok.  Yes there are FA pitchers right now and nobody is signing them...but nobody has pitching as bad as us.  And im not talking about signing, we needed to trade Manny.  We needed to extend or trade Schoop.  We needed to trade Britton when he still had value.  Instead we paid even more for him.  Its not too late to trade these players, Brach to.  Time to do it, same for Jones.  Until then we are moving back into irrelevance.  This season is already over, we need to focus on the future.  

[atomic]

1 minute ago, MikeAD said:

So we should be a last place team because we were bad before?  My line in the sand was trading Manny.  If they had extended him I would have backed off and been ok.  Yes there are FA pitchers right now and nobody is signing them...but nobody has pitching as bad as us.  And im not talking about signing, we needed to trade Manny.  We needed to extend or trade Schoop.  We needed to trade Britton when he still had value.  Instead we paid even more for him.  Its not too late to trade these players, Brach to.  Time to do it, same for Jones.  Until then we are moving back into irrelevance.  This season is already over, we need to focus on the future.  

Well if no other team is offering you decent return for Manny why would you trade him?  If you are trading all your players 2 years before free agency you are going to have a bad team all the time.   The bad decisions were signing Chris Davis to that crazy contract and signing Mark Trumbo when you already have Chris Davis at first and Mancini in the wings. Without those bad decisions the team would have the money to compete this season. 

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, MikeAD said:

So we should be a last place team because we were bad before?  My line in the sand was trading Manny.  If they had extended him I would have backed off and been ok.  Yes there are FA pitchers right now and nobody is signing them...but nobody has pitching as bad as us.  And im not talking about signing, we needed to trade Manny.  We needed to extend or trade Schoop.  We needed to trade Britton when he still had value.  Instead we paid even more for him.  Its not too late to trade these players, Brach to.  Time to do it, same for Jones.  Until then we are moving back into irrelevance.  This season is already over, we need to focus on the future.  

Damn, we havent even got the first game played in ST and you have already wrote the season as being over. SMH.

[MikeAD]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

Damn, we havent even got the first game played in ST and you have already wrote the season as being over. SMH.

Youre right, Im sorry.  The Red Sox and Yankees could have historic collapses along with Houston and the adjusted Cleveland, Twins, and Angels could all fail to mesh.  If all that happens and Toronto and Texas take enormous steps back we might be able to fight Tampa and Seattle for the last Wild Card spot.  But thats only if the carousel of minor league pitching can somehow cobble together enough starts to even get that far. 

I am not actually writing off the season anything can happen, but the Orioles failed in a major way this off season.  Not moving Jones, Manny, Britton and Brach will be catastrophic looking back.  We had a few good years but incompetence won out.  We could put it all together this year and win the damned World Series, it wont make the future any brighter if these changes arent made.