How did they get this bad?

[Luke-OH]

I think this season is just the result of a team's failure to understand their own window of contention. This kind of free-fall tends to happen when teams cling desperately to the last grasps of a competitive team.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

I think this season is just the result of a team's failure to understand their own window of contention. This kind of free-fall tends to happen when teams cling desperately to the last grasps of a competitive team.

 

I almost wonder how much of it was not understanding the window was closing or willfully denying that reality because of the contract situation of the Manager and GM.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, JR Oriole said:

Although I have no evidence of this, I suspect what has happened to them is what happens to a lot of "losing" teams. I have to believe they come to the ballpark expecting to lose.  The pitchers expect to be hit hard with no defense to help them, and the hitters (other than Machado) expect to be overmatched.  They see the Nats and Yankees come in and not only do they know those teams are better than them, but they expect it to show on the field.  And, the players also know that no matter how bad they are, they will never be held accountable.  None of the coaches or anyone in the front office will ever be fired, nobody will be traded, and nobody will be sent down unless a roster move has to be made.  So if you know you can't compete, but you will play and have a job no matter what, you get.....17-41. 

Oh, I think there’s a huge mental component here.    In addition to expecting to lose, they also know it’s of no real consequence if they win.   That’s hard any time, but especially hard when you’ve been used to being in the race and having every game matter.   

[weams]

[Luke-OH]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I almost wonder how much of it was not understanding the window was closing or willfully denying that reality because of the contract situation of the Manager and GM.

Probably the later subconsciously leading to the former to some degree. I think some of it's willful, but some is wishful delusion.

[Rene88]

15 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

You aren't the first he has done that to...

Corn said literally what I said he said. Cited Buck batted Hardy 2nd last year. Because clearly JJ Hardy and Jace Peterson have the same track record and offensive skills....

[atomic]

We have the Marlins coming up on our schedule. Maybe we could luck in a win against them.

[Dark Helmet]

Wouldn't it be better for you to just focus totally on the Gnats now? Even with winning, their bandwagon isn't full yet.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Rene88 said:

Corn said literally what I said he said. Cited Buck batted Hardy 2nd last year. Because clearly JJ Hardy and Jace Peterson have the same track record and offensive skills....

I'm being serious here.  Work on your reading comprehension.

Me saying something is "mostly irrelevant" is not "literally" the same as "lineups don’t matter".

BTW Peterson has a 295 OBP, Hardy in 2012 had a 282 OBP.

 

[weams]

I blame the pitchers.

 

[OFFNY]

35 minutes ago, weams said:

o

 

 

Then and now ........ when all the laughter died in sorrow.

 

 

o

 

o

[spiritof66]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I almost wonder how much of it was not understanding the window was closing or willfully denying that reality because of the contract situation of the Manager and GM.

It's obvious to me that desperate but unrealistic belief that the window was still open is a big part of it, but I don't think it has much if anything to do with Duquette or Showalter. I think it has to do with an 89-year-old owner who, after almost a quarter century of abject failure, got close to the World Series a few years ago, wanted to keep trying to squeeze that team's core through the same window no matter how tiny the opening got, never has understood how early and how much veteran stars can decline, and has no interest at all in building for a future that he may not be around to see.

I've been posting a version of the above repeatedly for a year or so. What's new is my enhanced appreciation for how much Brady Anderson has helped the old fool implement his Gotta Win Now vision for the Orioles. A little of that, like Brady's determination to hold on to O'Day and Trumbo, is documented. But it's clear to me that it has run much deeper.than that: as Angelos' principal (perhaps only) contact with the team, Brady almost certainly showed his loyalty by assuring his patron that, no matter what the doom-and-gloom media were saying, this team still had a shot to win it all through last year. I guess that's called loyalty.

When I read about Brady's efforts to "fix" Mike Wright, it sounded weird to me, but now I see a kind of logic to it. Everyone saw for a few years that this team's weakness was starting pitching, and Angelos's opposition to long contracts for free-agent pitchers made it hard to get immediate help. The starter already in the system who showed the most promise  of breaking into the rotation was probably Mike Wright, but he was falling short of hopes/expectations. Brady was going to give the team a starter who could help keep the window open for another a year or two. 

What do you think would have happened  if Dan Duquette had a post-2016 meeting with Angelos on the state of the Orioles, in which he told Angelos that the team was aging,  help from the MiL system was at least a couple of years away, the Orioles probably wouldn't be able to compete with the up-and-coming NYYs and RS for a few years and maybe more, the team should  either extend or trade Manny, and the best strategy would be to trade  players with short-term value, and either rebuild or retool. -- in effect, giving up for a few years?  I don't know either, but  my guess is that Angelos would have deemed that further proof of Duquette's disloyalty -- maybe even viewing it as part of a plot to help the BJ's by getting the Orioles out of their way for the rest of Duquette's tenure, and beyond  --- and would have ignored the advice completely.

Once you accept the premise that Angelos is, at this point, a completely selfish owner with no regard for the franchise or the fans, it makes sense. I wouldn't even blame him, if he (or his sons) offered the slightest bit of transparency about what he's been up to. In his desperation to see the Orioles get to the World Series before his time runs out, Angelos has been like the hero who lays out an improbable escape plan to besieged GIs in a war movie or to the good guys in a Western and says, "It's a thousand-to-one shot, but it's the only shot we've got." To Angelos, even if the 2012-16 window has become only a slit, it's the only window he's got, and I have no doubt that the loyal Brady assured him that the Orioles might squeeze through that opening to some October glory. 

 

[waroriole]

I can see an aging team falling to 5-10 games below .500 due to all of these reasons. However, you don’t fall all the way to the worst team in baseball without the manager losing the clubhouse. 

[AndresMora]

Davis strikes out 40% of the time.  When you don't even touch the ball 4 out of every 10 AB's, how are you going to do much?  When he does hit it, he gets out but it is much more than the shift.  They've been shifting on Davis for years but he wasn't hitting .154.

[Going Underground]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

True. It is very possible that he just isn't that good, or a combination of the two.

Buck has hinted it has bothered him at times I don't know.People did not like when I said if he plays first that he is a two year younger version of CJ Cron .Mancini maybe a better walk rate and Cron maybe a little more power.Cron was traded for a PTBNL.