Duquette: "Extensive Conversations a Couple Years Ago" with Manny

[MagicBird]

11 hours ago, Hallas said:

I don't think this is fair.  He had major knee surgery in 2013, and major knee surgery in 2014, and the O's are known to be conservative with their medical evaluations.  While being overly cautious may have hurt the Orioles, would you feel the same way if Machado hurt his knee a 3rd time in 2016 after signing a deal through 2020, and he was forced to move to 1B/DH?

If the Orioles never called like Manny said they didnt its certainly fair.  Of course the knees were a concern.   

[weams]

14 minutes ago, MagicBird said:

If the Orioles never called like Manny said they didnt its certainly fair.  Of course the knees were a concern.   

Manny only knows what the "King of Sleaze Mountain" has told him.

Quote

He wore a prominent cross on his chest and began attending church every week. But was it genuine?

With Lozano, that question is always there. Through the years, he has told clients and colleagues that his career began in 1990 as a kid fresh out of USC, where he played Division I ball and earned a law degree. Every part of that sentence is false.

[MagicBird]

40 minutes ago, weams said:

Manny only knows what the "King of Sleaze Mountain" has told him.

Thanks for posting that article.

[MikeAD]

11 hours ago, atomic said:

I always said that Angelo's would never agree to long term contract with Manny because of his bad knees.   Evidently Chris David's knees are rock solid. 

4-D Chess though.  Only walking to First Base before every inning and to home plate every third inning is a hell of a way to keep a player healthy for a long contract.  Davis can probably play at this rate until hes 76.  Peter-tron 4000 will be pleased. 

[Frobby]

I think the O’s screwed up the Manny negotiations big time.   It’s been obvious since virtually the day he made his debut that he was the kind of talent an organization gets only once in a generation.    Signing him long term should have been the team’s highest priority.    So many times during Manny’s tenure I heard Duquette say, in essence, that the O’s were not pursuing a long term deal with Manny yet because the team had more urgent priorities.    That’s just asinine.  They should have pressed for a deal every single winter from 2013 onwards.    And I don’t want to hear the knees as an excuse.    That should have been weighed into what the O’s would offer, but it clearly shouldn’t have kept the O’s from aggressively and regularly looking for a deal.    If anything, it created an opportunity for the O’s with Manny having to realize the risk he’d be taking by going year by year.    To hear Manny say that the O’s said they’d be contacting his agent to discuss and then never did it, is extremely frustrating.    I accept that the story is probably more complicated than Manny is portraying it, but it’s obvious to me that the O’s were nowhere near as aggressive and active as they should have been.  

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think the O’s screwed up the Manny negotiations big time.   It’s been obvious since virtually the day he made his debut that he was the kind of talent an organization gets only once in a generation.    Signing him long term should have been the team’s highest priority.    So many times during Manny’s tenure I heard Duquette say, in essence, that the O’s were not pursuing a long term deal with Manny yet because the team had more urgent priorities.    That’s just asinine.  They should have pressed for a deal every single winter from 2013 onwards.    And I don’t want to hear the knees as an excuse.    That should have been weighed into what the O’s would offer, but it clearly shouldn’t have kept the O’s from aggressively and regularly looking for a deal.    If anything, it created an opportunity for the O’s with Manny having to realize the risk he’d be taking by going year by year.    To hear Manny say that the O’s said they’d be contacting his agent to discuss and then never did it, is extremely frustrating.    I accept that the story is probably more complicated than Manny is portraying it, but it’s obvious to me that the O’s were nowhere near as aggressive and active as they should have been.  

Well why only manny in 2013, why didn’t we lock up MW either?  Were we wrong then?  MW was coming off of two straight All Star, GG, 4.2 & 5.1 WAR seasons. MW was only 26. Why wasn’t it a mistake that we didn’t lock him up and buy out some FA years?

Should we have locked up Schoop for 7/100 last off-season. What about Tillman to a “Porcello” type deal that same year like many wanted to?

I think we’ve done pretty well in the locking up our young guys to extensions area. 

Good:

AJ, Nick extension.  Not giving Tillman & MW huge extensions. Maybe Schoop too.  Letting Chen walk.

Bad:

Machado.  Roberts extension.

 

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Well why only manny in 2013, why didn’t we lock up MW either?  Were we wrong then?  MW was coming off of two straight All Star, GG, 4.2 & 5.1 WAR seasons. MW was only 26. Why wasn’t it a mistake that we didn’t lock him up and buy out some FA years?

Should we have locked up Schoop for 7/100 last off-season. What about Tillman to a “Porcello” type deal that same year like many wanted to?

I think we’ve done pretty well in the locking up our young guys to extensions area. 

Good:

AJ, Nick extension.  Not giving Tillman & MW huge extensions. Maybe Schoop too.  Letting Chen walk.

Bad:

Machado.  Roberts extension.

 

Manny is the best position player the Orioles have developed in almost 30 years.    He’s in a different category from everybody else.   And that been as plain as the nose on your face even before he really broke out offensively.     I feel fine saying that because I’ve been beating that drum for six years.   

And yeah, the O’s have had some poor extensions other than the ones you mentioned, starting of course with Chris Davis.    Things didn’t turn out very well with Mora, Hardy (2nd time) or O’Day, either.   Hardy’s original extension was brilliant.

[MagicBird]

Its hard to know what the situation really is but the Orioles look bad any way u slice it.  Maybe Manny wanted too much money?  Maybe the Orioles thought they had time on their side?  I cant envision any scenario where they wouldnt want Manny to be a long term Oriole.  Maybe Manny's agent wanted to make the Orioles look bad so he could get more money down the road?  Its hard to believe that the Orioles would never make a "call" this many years running about signing him to a long term deal.  Maybe its true?   Whatever it is my guess is the Orioles havent handled this well all along and whatever the situation is its created some bad blood and they blew it.

[esmd]

None of really know, and probably never will.  But my own personal belief is that Manny never was interested in signing here.  I think he always planned to hit free agency, maximize his value, and move on elsewhere to a more glamorous locale like NY or LA, or even Miami if the Marlins were any good, but that obviously doesn't seem to be the case.  We shall see.

[Dipper9]

41 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Manny is the best position player the Orioles have developed in almost 30 years.    He’s in a different category from everybody else.   And that been as plain as the nose on your face even before he really broke out offensively.     I feel fine saying that because I’ve been beating that drum for six years.   

And yeah, the O’s have had some poor extensions other than the ones you mentioned, starting of course with Chris Davis.    Things didn’t turn out very well with Mora, Hardy (2nd time) or O’Day, either.   Hardy’s original extension was brilliant.

Two major knee surgeries in 6 years is reason enough to be cautious about extending him, regardless of his on field skills.  And as for now, I stand by my prediction that he becomes a very lazy ballplayer and that whomever signs him this offseason is going to regret it in the later part of the contract.  

[Luke-OH]

7 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

Two major knee surgeries in 6 years is reason enough to be cautious about extending him, regardless of his on field skills.  And as for now, I stand by my prediction that he becomes a very lazy ballplayer and that whomever signs him this offseason is going to regret it in the later part of the contract.  

It is important to not lose sight of the types of surgeries done, both knee injuries were caused by congenital issues which were fixed during the surgery. By all accounts, his knees are better now than they were as a teenager now that the issue is fixed. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Luke-OH said:

It is important to not lose sight of the types of surgeries done, both knee injuries were caused by congenital issues which were fixed during the surgery. By all accounts, his knees are better now than they were as a teenager now that the issue is fixed. 

And that was known at the time.   

[Luke-OH]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

And that was known at the time.   

Yes, so any use of his knee surgeries as a excuse for not extending him is misguided at best. 

[Sanfran327]

55 minutes ago, esmd said:

None of really know, and probably never will.  But my own personal belief is that Manny never was interested in signing here.  I think he always planned to hit free agency, maximize his value, and move on elsewhere to a more glamorous locale like NY or LA, or even Miami if the Marlins were any good, but that obviously doesn't seem to be the case.  We shall see.

Of course. He's the new A-Rod. It was always his intention to become a mercenary for the highest bidder. Guys like A-Rod and Manny measure their talent by the size of their paycheck moreso than their actual production.

I would have loved to make him a career Oriole if he wanted to be a career Oriole, but I don't think that was ever in his heart. I won't go so far as to say good riddance, but I will be relieved when this situation is all over and we can move on.

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Sanfran327 said:

Of course. He's the new A-Rod. It was always his intention to become a mercenary for the highest bidder. Guys like A-Rod and Manny measure their talent by the size of their paycheck moreso than their actual production.

I would have loved to make him a career Oriole if he wanted to be a career Oriole, but I don't think that was ever in his heart. I won't go so far as to say good riddance, but I will be relieved when this situation is all over and we can move on.

I'm not a fan of A-Rod the person, but he probably came closer to "earning" his huge contracts than almost any of the huge signings. The MFY's got two MVP years, two other top ten MVP years, and a year he ranked #13 in MVP voting. Texas got one MVP year (he was there for three years). A-Rod followed the money and the media and fans (outside of Seattle) never really liked him, for some good to decent reasons), but the guy produced. He even switched positions when he was clearly the better SS. If Manny produces nearly as well after he signs his big contract, then the team and its fans will be lucky.  

 

I'm not sure what the bolded statement really means. Again, Rodriquez was an amazingly productive player. He's 12th in career WAR behind the elite of the elite. I understand not liking A-Rod, I don't like him as a person either, but the guy produced.