Is Harbor Park (Norfolk AAA) a problem?

[LookinUp]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Harbor Park is a modern, high-quality stadium.  Asking Norfolk to move the park is patently ridiculous.  What would be the justification?  "Hey, we're a little displeased with the 85 park factor, so would you mind kicking in $250M in taxpayer money to build us a newer, more hitter-friendly park and tear down the perfectly good one you built a couple decades ago?"

On the organizational priorty list I would put relocation of the Tides just below making the grass area beyond CF at OPACY in play, and just above putting a foam dancing party deck on the roof of the warehouse.

FWIW, I know moving a park is ridiculous. That doesn't mean it needs to be such an important park in the Orioles' organization. That's a false choice, IMO. 

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

35 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Harbor Park is hard on hitters.   I value the away hitting stats for the Tides more than the home stats.    It is a question of where else the team would play if they moved from Norfolk.   There is a AA team in Richmond.  That park needs to be upgraded to be a AAA park if a move was made there.   

I'd love for the O's to have their affiliate in Richmond.  Used to be the AAA team for the Braves, but the stadium has been an ongoing issue for well over a decade.  The Flying Squirrels were promised a new stadium, but that still hasn't come to pass.  At some point, something will give, but I have no idea when.

[DrungoHazewood]

Just now, LookinUp said:

We have 3 or 4 parks even closer by that could likely support a AAA team.

Where?  I believe the Diamond in Richmond was downgraded and no longer supports AAA ball.  Frederick and Bowie would certainly have to have major renovations to be certified to that level.  I suppose the Ravens Stadium or Fedex could be turned into a modern day Polo Grounds with 225' foul lines and a 500' CF.  RFK is technically still standing, although the Nats might protest.

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

We have 3 or 4 parks even closer by that could likely support a AAA team.

Such as?    They have to seat at least 10,000 people.    

[LookinUp]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Such as?    They have to seat at least 10,000 people.    

Bowie's stadium has a 10,000 person capacity.

 

[Yes, this is the first I've heard of that requirement. Learn something new every day!]

[DrungoHazewood]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Such as?    They have to seat at least 10,000 people.    

Maybe MLB should stop being (what's the right word here... jerks?) and let teams pick the stadium they play in based on whatever criteria they want just so long as it's safe for players and fans?  Why is a 10,000 seat capacity a requirement for an International League that averages about 7000 fans a game?  Maybe Norfolk would be better off with a 4,000 seat stadium that encourages season ticket sales.  Last year they played to about 44% capacity, averaging just over 5000 a game.

Would it really be an embarassment to the IL and MLB if they had a AAA team drawing 6000 fans to a really nice 9000-seat stadium?

[LookinUp]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Maybe MLB should stop being (what's the right word here... jerks?) and let teams pick the stadium they play in based on whatever criteria they want just so long as it's safe for players and fans?  Why is a 10,000 seat capacity a requirement for an International League that averages about 7000 fans a game?  Maybe Norfolk would be better off with a 4,000 seat stadium that encourages season ticket sales.  Last year they played to about 44% capacity, averaging just over 5000 a game.

 Would it really be an embarassment to the IL and MLB if they had a AAA team drawing 6000 fans to a really nice 9000-seat stadium?

I bet that's MLB's convoluted way of telling teams to be in larger markets like Norfolk/Richmond as opposed to Aberdeen. You'd think they could come up with a better criteria, but I guess stadium size is a fair proxy for a city's potential interest in baseball.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Maybe MLB should stop being (what's the right word here... jerks?) and let teams pick the stadium they play in based on whatever criteria they want just so long as it's safe for players and fans?  Why is a 10,000 seat capacity a requirement for an International League that averages about 7000 fans a game?  Maybe Norfolk would be better off with a 4,000 seat stadium that encourages season ticket sales.  Last year they played to about 44% capacity, averaging just over 5000 a game.

Would it really be an embarassment to the IL and MLB if they had a AAA team drawing 6000 fans to a really nice 9000-seat stadium?

I’m not defending their rules, just pointing out they exist.    It would be interesting to know how often they exceed, say, 75% of capacity.   I assume that like in the majors, they probably do way better on weekends than during the week.    

[LookinUp]

I'd wager it isn't a coincidence that PG Stadium's capacity is exactly 10,000. Not saying the O's will change affiliates, but it's nice for them that they are not dependent on only one location when negotiations are taking place.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’m not defending their rules, just pointing out they exist.    It would be interesting to know how often they exceed, say, 75% of capacity.   I assume that like in the majors, they probably do way better on weekends than during the week.    

Norfolk is odd because of the military presence.  

[DrungoHazewood]

9 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

I bet that's MLB's convoluted way of telling teams to be in larger markets like Norfolk/Richmond as opposed to Aberdeen. You'd think they could come up with a better criteria, but I guess stadium size is a fair proxy for a city's potential interest in baseball.

What would be great would be a metric like a long history of supporting teams that competed to win meaningful championships and trophies.  Just looking at the differences between Miami and Detroit shows the folly of relying mostly on market size to judge a fanbase.  Unfortunately the minors have been fake competitions for going on a century, and I won't blame cities for not supporting the apprentices of a random team 2,000 miles away.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m not defending their rules, just pointing out they exist.    It would be interesting to know how often they exceed, say, 75% of capacity.   I assume that like in the majors, they probably do way better on weekends than during the week.    

I had a look at all their Saturday home games:

7073

6269

8083

8562

9102

8371

7301

6045

12131

They drew 11,131 on opening day

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

I personally think the Orioles are lucky to have a team in Norfolk. Would you rather have a team in Rochester or 2,000 miles away?

Rochester worked fine for many years. So yes rather have a team in Rochester.  

[Frobby]

Just now, atomic said:

Rochester worked fine for many years. So yes rather have a team in Rochester.  

If it comes with a modern day Bobby Grich and Don Baylor, I’ll take it!   Otherwise I think it’s better for both administrative and marketing purposes to have the team in Norfolk.   

[DrungoHazewood]

Interesting article here from a few years ago on the Pawtucket Red Sox proposing a stadium that seats 6000 or so but also with hills and berms and various standing areas that could technically get them to 9000 or 10000 to meet the requirements.  The article mentions that the rule isn't rigorously enforced in the PCL, which just goes to show that MLB makes the rules, and they're free to look the other way when they see fit. 

Just like the rules, which I think are still on the books, that say the RF/LF foul lines have to be at least 333' and the CF fence has to be 400'+.  Almost every new stadium breaks at least one of those.