Hyde: "I won't manage to the save stat"

[Moose Milligan]

Everyone who's not a manager is a bullpen usage expert.

[Yardball85]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

I dont think he was managing for the save, I think he was trying to manage for a win.

It blewup on him, thats for sure.

Hindsight is always 20-20

I'm sory but that makes no sense.  How is failing to use the best reliever in baseball in a tight one game wild card game managing for a win? Seems more like managing for the same of some archaic rule of having Britton get the last three outs of a yet-to-be-earned win. 

The decision was mind-numbingly stupid, then and in retrospect.

[atomic]

14 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

I'm sory but that makes no sense.  How is failing to use the best reliever in baseball in a tight one game wild card game managing for a win? Seems more like managing for the same of some archaic rule of having Britton get the last three outs of a yet-to-be-earned win. 

 The decision was mind-numbingly stupid, then and in retrospect.

And didn't he warm up twice?  Makes zero sense to not put him in the game after you warmed him up.  

[Redskins Rick]

12 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Day in, day out, yes. I think he burnt JJ out and then stuck with him too long. I think he did the same with Brach and Britton. Maybe those arms were all set for big setbacks, but I think he managed for today, not tomorrow. That's perfectly fine in the short term, but it came back to bite us in games that mattered, and ultimately left him without enough bullets to fire in the end.

Buck hated to warm a guy up in the pen multiple times during the game. Unlike some like LaRusso.

he also was good at not overworking his guys.

Quote

He rarely asks pitchers to go three straight days nor does he allow them to go three straight days without getting into a game.

https://www.camdenchat.com/2016/5/23/11737458/baltimore-orioles-bullpen-showalter

 

[Il BuonO]

13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Everyone who's not a manager is a bullpen usage expert.

Well, I am. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Il BuonO said:

Well, I am. 

How well did your fantasy team do?????

[Just Regular]

I would be so entertained if Hyde and Givens made statements about coveting Wins.  I think it's a beautiful bit of cosmic balance that if ace relievers said they wanted stupid Wins like they used to want Saves, it could nudge them towards higher overall leverage.

We manage to keep a game to 3-3 after 5 or 6 innings, Givens should be stomping around like Kimbrel in the 8th inning of the wildcard game.  The rare instance we're up 3 with 3 outs to go - it's a learning opportunity for Scott, Pop, etc.

[Yardball85]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

And didn't he warm up twice?  Makes zero sense to not put him in the game after you warmed him up.  

Yes, if I recall correctly.  There is literally no way to seriously defend the decision.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Yardball85 said:

Yes, if I recall correctly.  There is literally no way to seriously defend the decision.

I was talking about his overall strengts

Hell, he blew it, he knew it, then, he admitted, he blew.

Its over, crap happens, it sucks, it over with.

he thought he would hold onto the tie, get his offense a chance to get the lead, and then shutdown the team with his ace closer, end of game,

[DrungoHazewood]

43 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

Yup, and at the end of it, JJ was never the same. Buck worked him like a dog.

I'm not so sure I agree with this.  Jim Johnson is a modern reliever with 6.8 K/9 and a 3.76 career FIP.  The O's got consecutive seasons out of him with 50 saves and an ERA under 3.00.  In 2012 he threw 68 innings, 71 games.  In 2013 70 innings, 74 games.  That's not any kind of huge workload in any era, and Buck was good about not warming up someone when they weren't coming in.  Heck, in 2011 he threw 91 innings to 2.67.  And in '08 he had 64 innings of a 2.23.

With hindsight I look back and think, wow, Buck got three really good years out of a pretty ordinary pitcher.

 

[Tony-OH]

38 minutes ago, MikeAD said:

Hyde: "I would never leave my best pitcher on the bench with the game on the line like the bozo before me" 

Please put smiley faces or something behind supposed quotes so not to confuse people. I know you are joking but I guessing some will not. 

[LookinUp]

23 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

I'm sory but that makes no sense.  How is failing to use the best reliever in baseball in a tight one game wild card game managing for a win? Seems more like managing for the same of some archaic rule of having Britton get the last three outs of a yet-to-be-earned win. 

The decision was mind-numbingly stupid, then and in retrospect.

1. I think he was talking about me, not Buck.

2. I don't think there's any disagreement about his decision not to bring in Britton against the Blue Jays. His other option was Ubaldo, for god's sake, and against that part of the lineup.

[Yardball85]

16 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

I was talking about his overall strengts

Hell, he blew it, he knew it, then, he admitted, he blew.

Its over, crap happens, it sucks, it over with.

he thought he would hold onto the tie, get his offense a chance to get the lead, and then shutdown the team with his ace closer, end of game,

Overall, Buck was our best manager of my lifetime (1988 - onward).  That one thing just stuck with me.

[theocean]

4 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

2. I don't think there's any disagreement about his decision not to bring in Britton against the Blue Jays. His other option was Ubaldo, for god's sake, and against that part of the lineup.

As soon as he put in Ubaldo, half the bar I was at proactively ordered a shot of something. A starter who always struggles in the first inning coming in to face Donaldson, Encarnacion, and Bautista - three of the nastiest hitters in the game at the time. What could go wrong?

[LookinUp]

It was truly a WTF moment.