Yankees aqcuire Nady and Marte from Pirates?

[Camden_yardbird]

Remember, these are rental players.

Not quite. Nady is under control through next year. Not really a rental. He will be terrorizing the Orioles next year....if he's healthy

[oriole_way]

I don't really like the deal from the Pirates perspective.

Yankees get:

- Nady is not a FA until after next season, similar to Brian Roberts. If Nady were a FA at the end of this season, then I would have a different outlook on this trade, but that's not the case. Maybe he's having a career year, but it is interesting to note that his OPS has increased every year in the bigs:

2003 .712

2004 .717 (only 77 AB)

2005 .760

2006 .790

2007 .805

2008 .919

- Damaso Marte has a club option for next year and if the Yankees lose him they will receive two high draft picks since he'll be a type A FA.

Pirates get:

- Tabata was stinking up AA to the tune of a .630 OPS. He may have maturity issues. He's currently injured and nobody is sure when he'll be back this season. He's young but he turns 20 in a couple of weeks (Aug 12) and he won't look quite as promising if his OPS is around .700 as a 21 year old a year from now in AA. He hasn't displayed any power and at 5' 11", I'm not sure how much power potential he could have. Now, if he is putting up an .800ish OPS next year at AA, then I would agree that he could be very good, but it's all hypothetical projection at this point.

- Phil Coke turns 28 in August and is at AA. Need any more be said?

- Ross Ohlendorf turns 26 in August (what's up with everybody having their birthdate in August?). He throws hard but has yet to impress at the MLB level.

- Kontos is 23 and doesn't turn 24 until next June. I actually find him intriguing. He apparently has pretty good stuff when you read his scouting reports and is pitching relatively well at AA this year. But he has never been considered a top 10 prospect in their system, although that may change (or would have changed if he wasn't traded). If he doesn't pan out as a starter, I could at least see him being a plus bullpen guy.

[Sports Guy]

Not quite. Nady is under control through next year. Not really a rental. He will be terrorizing the Orioles next year....if he's healthy

That does change things...I had heard, multiple times, that Nady was a FA after this year.

Well, the Yankees did rip them off it appears...Olney was saying GMs from around the league were saying, "that's it"!

This is kind of like the Pau Gasol trade.

[Big Mac]

That does change things...I had heard, multiple times, that Nady was a FA after this year.

Well, the Yankees did rip them off it appears...Olney was saying GMs from around the league were saying, "that's it"!

This is kind of like the Pau Gasol trade.

This is exactly the kond of move the Pirates would make, notthing has really changed in Pittsburgh.

Why the Yankees, of all the teams to rip off the Pirates, why the Yankees?

Next thing you know they're going to get Bay for Igawa,

[ChaosLex]

I'm not sure how anyone can believe this is a good deal for the Pirates. They gave up two valuable pieces to a team that is in contention, in dire need of players at these two positions, and has a strong farm system. In return, they got a pre-season B+ prospect (Tabata) whose stock has fallen a long way this season, a pre-season C+ prospect (Kontos), a non-prospect, and a relief guy that we've all seen pitch many times and is no better than an OK 6th/7th inning guy at best (Ohlendorf).

That does change things...I had heard, multiple times, that Nady was a FA after this year.

Well, the Yankees did rip them off it appears...Olney was saying GMs from around the league were saying, "that's it"!

This is kind of like the Pau Gasol trade.

This is exactly the kond of move the Pirates would make, notthing has really changed in Pittsburgh.

Why the Yankees, of all the teams to rip off the Pirates, why the Yankees?

Next thing you know they're going to get Bay for Igawa,

Thank you!!! I think some of our posters last night just didn't want to admit that the Yankees got better at no expense to their farm.

Considering it's rumored that Alvarez is going back to school next year, I'd say it's business as usual in Pittsburgh.

[Big Mac]

Thank you!!! I think some of our posters last night just didn't want to admit that the Yankees got better at no expense to their farm.

Considering it's rumored that Alvarez is going back to school next year, I'd say it's business as usual in Pittsburgh.

Wow, I haven't heard that about Alvarez, sucks for Pirates fans.

[GoldenRay2007]

Seems as if there are other players involved...

According to the New York Post, the Pirates will be getting Daniel McCutchen and Jeff Karstens along with Jose Tabata and Ross Ohlendorf from the Yankees for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.

It was widely reported last night (including by the Post itself) that George Kontos and Phil Coke were in the deal in place of McCutchen and Karstens. This is clearly better for the Pirates. McCutchen is arguably the Yankees' best remaining pitching prospect, though he's not a big upside guy and he doesn't rank with Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy. Karstens isn't much more than middle relief fodder, but neither was Coke.

Source: rotoworld

[sakata_catching]

Considering it's rumored that Alvarez is going back to school next year, I'd say it's business as usual in Pittsburgh.

Actually, the Alvarez negotiations have followed a fairly similar path to the Wieters negotiations last year. Anyone care to tally up the rumors that were floating around this time last year that Wieters wouldn't sign ... right up till the last freaking minute?

Nothing is being reported as official yet by the PPG as far as the Pirates' return, but if the original reports prove accurate, yup, it's a bad deal, but not catastrophically so. In particular, I think some people are over-valuing Nady, a good guy who's putting up some gaudy numbers this season, but who's also seemingly incapable of keeping himself off the DL for more than six weeks at a stretch.

He did seem to genuinely like playing in Pittsburgh though, which is uncommon.

[sakata_catching]

Seems as if there are other players involved...

According to the New York Post, the Pirates will be getting Daniel McCutchen and Jeff Karstens along with Jose Tabata and Ross Ohlendorf from the Yankees for Xavier Nady and Damaso Marte.

It was widely reported last night (including by the Post itself) that George Kontos and Phil Coke were in the deal in place of McCutchen and Karstens. This is clearly better for the Pirates. McCutchen is arguably the Yankees' best remaining pitching prospect, though he's not a big upside guy and he doesn't rank with Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy. Karstens isn't much more than middle relief fodder, but neither was Coke.

Source: rotoworld

This iteration of the trade is now official.

[33rdst]

This iteration of the trade is now official.

This is a far more acceptable deal IMO then the one reported last night. McCutchen and Karstens are 26 year old starters that could move into the pirates rotation. Both have less hits than innings pitched and good K/BB ratios. A good deal for the Pirates given their needs.

[sakata_catching]

Gleaned some pretty hysterical Yankee fan quotes from a Pirates board this morning regarding the revised trade package.

Enjoy. I did!

the trade just went from 'A Steal'

to

a trade made out of necessity.

Cutch and Kontos are actually similar types of pitchers. But Cutch is the more surer bet at this time. Looks like all that whining and crying by the other GMs and executives might have given the Pirates cold feet and the Yanks are being forced to ante up a bit more.

That sucks. Pirates floated it around to see what the reaction was. The rest of baseball wanted to screw the Yankees as usual.

Why are other teams allowed to make trades considered "steals" yet when the Yankees do it, the league is up in arms in order to force the rival gm's hand. This is absurd.

Wow....screw it.....then we want Bay.....for that price, they've gotta give up more than Nady who is bound to come down from his recent success....

Not sure this trade is all that great now...

McC, Tabata, Karstens, Ohlendorf, the pirates just rebuilt their team on one deal. Oly is thge only real weak link. All three pitchers will be pitching very well for the Pirates by September. We shpuld have cancelled the deal if Cutch was in it.

Barring anymore changes, if this is indeed the final package, I think it's a fair one for the Bucs. Both Ohlendorf and Cutch have good stuff. Cutch is more developed at this point. Both can step into the starting or relief role for the major league club right now. They have legit upside. Karstens is also big league ready but his ceiling is limited.

Tabata is the wildcard. He's the farthest away yet he has the highest upside. He has maturity issues to straighten out as well. If things break right for him and he works hard, he's the goods.

[Ruzious]

I'm guessing Marte is type A and the Yanks get 2 high picks for him. Then they sign a better type B FA to take his place. Uggg.

Would Nagy and Marte be the rough equivalent of Huff and Bradford? If so, this trade probably hurts the O's in trying to trade them for quality.

[Mark Carver]

I'm guessing Marte is type A and the Yanks get 2 high picks for him. Then they sign a better type B FA to take his place. Uggg.

Would Nagy and Marte be the rough equivalent of Huff and Bradford? If so, this trade probably hurts the O's in trying to trade them for quality.

Going in this year, Marte was a Type B player, ranked 32nd amongst NL Relief Pitchers. His ranking of 65.711 would have made him a Type B player at the 35th position amongst AL Relief Pitchers. Type A relief pitchers in the AL were ranked to the 25th position.

He's going to have to lights out from here on out to move up to being amongst the Top 20% of all AL Relief Pitchers in 2008 to be a Type A pitcher.

[Ruzious]

Going in this year, Marte was a Type B player, ranked 32nd amongst NL Relief Pitchers. His ranking of 65.711 would have made him a Type B player at the 35th position amongst AL Relief Pitchers. Type A relief pitchers in the AL were ranked to the 25th position.

He's going to have to lights out from here on out to move up to being amongst the Top 20% of all AL Relief Pitchers in 2008 to be a Type A pitcher.

I don't know, Mark. How many of the players that were ahead of him last year are ahead of him this year? Wouldn't his consistency give him a good shot to be A?

[Mark Carver]

I don't know, Mark. How many of the players that were ahead of him last year are ahead of him this year? Wouldn't his consistency give him a good shot to be A?

The guarded secret of how Elias ranks this stuff is like the guarded secrets of Ft Knox. Moving to the AL may end up hurting his chances. In NL he had better chance to jump past 4 pitchers, in the AL he has to jump past 10 relievers.

2006-2007 Last AL Type A = 72.040

2006-2007 Last NL Type A = 70.213

2006-2007 Damaso Marte = 65.711

The following AL relievers have better rankings -

25 Matt Guerrier 72.040 A

26 C.J. Wilson 70.732 B

27 Luis Vizcaino 70.201 B

28 Chad Bradford 70.184 B

29 Dennys Reyes 70.166 B

30 Hideki Okajima 68.682 B

31 Joe Borowski 68.505 B

32 Justin Duchscherer 68.293 B

33 Darren Oliver 66.985 B

34 Mike Timlin 66.914 B

The Orioles very own, Chad Bradford looks like he not to be moved down, if anything he could move up to a Type A.