Givens market heating up

[Sessh]

2 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

Where did Elias say that?

I thought he had said that as well and was more interested in building an "elite talent pipeline" or something like that. The elite talent is going to come from the draft and let's be real here. It is highly unlikely that anyone on this team could fetch even one elite prospect out of someone else's system despite the overvaluations of our players around here at times.

I'm not a huge fan of trading for lottery tickets, but I'm somehow ok with it if they are teens that came from the international draft as opposed to guys in their 20's that their previous teams had given up on. It also helps that Elias has plenty of experience scouting in Latin America from his previous jobs and I generally agree with his approach to rebuilding the franchise, so I'm willing to bend a little.

[Roll Tide]

39 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

Where did Elias say that?

Read the article ....it's a journalist saying that he said it not me.

[Luke-OH]

46 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Read the article ....it's a journalist saying that he said it not me.

Nick Stevens is a serious guy, bit of a homer, but far from an insider. The article is a solid albeit completely speculative piece, the what Elias wants part is just an educated guess. The most useful part is a look at some interesting prospects in Padres system (which Nick knows well since he’s covered that system in some manner for a while). 

Not talking about this one in particular but you post a lot of sources that are just really speculative entry-level fan type blog posts. Which is fine, there’s nothing wrong with that, but referencing them in an argument as some sort of fact just because they are published on the internet isn’t a good practice. 

 

[Roll Tide]

49 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Nick Stevens is a serious guy, bit of a homer, but far from an insider. The article is a solid albeit completely speculative piece, the what Elias wants part is just an educated guess. The most useful part is a look at some interesting prospects in Padres system (which Nick knows well since he’s covered that system in some manner for a while). 

Not talking about this one in particular but you post a lot of sources that are just really speculative entry-level fan type blog posts. Which is fine, there’s nothing wrong with that, but referencing them in an argument as some sort of fact just because they are published on the internet isn’t a good practice. 

 

Well he quotes Elias .....Regardless of the power of the source I post them to add something to talk about. If Elias really didn't say that I'd be disappointed for sure.

[Luke-OH]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Well he quotes Elias .....Regardless of the power of the source I post them to add something to talk about. If Elias really didn't say that I'd be disappointed for sure.

He absolutely did not quote Elias.

[Roll Tide]

14 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

He absolutely did not quote Elias.

Quote

As Elias has stated, he isn’t looking for elite prospects in return for his trade pieces. Everyone is clear on what type of value even the best Orioles player has at this point. Instead, the goal of Elias at this deadline is to acquire talent from the lower levels of the minor leagues, including more young, international prospects, similar to the two pieces acquired for Andrew Cashner.

He sure sounds like he speaking as if Elias has said these things

[Luke-OH]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

He sure sounds like he speaking as if Elias has said these things

That’s definitely not a quote, at best it’s an attempted paraphrasing. I’m not aware or the quote he’s paraphrasing so it may just be misremembering. 

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

That’s definitely not a quote, at best it’s an attempted paraphrasing. I’m not aware or the quote he’s paraphrasing so it may just be misremembering. 

Fair enough 

[El_Duderino]

2 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

He absolutely did not quote Elias.

Right, and more importantly I can’t see any GM in history saying that. 

 

[Sessh]

It doesn't seem like he quoted Elias, but it does seem consistent with what he has said his plans are to rebuild the organization. He said this during his introduction.

Quote

“We’re going to build an elite talent pipeline,” Elias said. Of the players now in the organization, he said, “There are some future stars in the system and some really good pitchers.”

..and he has put considerable effort into building that pipeline by expanding international efforts. If Elias' plan was to make trades to acquire elite prospects, then he was a fool because we had nothing to trade for such prospects. The only way to do that is through the draft and internationally which is what he is doing. So, although he did not quote Elias (that I can find), it sure does seem to be the case here. I am sure Elias would accept an elite prospect in a trade if he could get one, but chances are not likely for that to happen. Even if we could get one, using this method to rebuild the organization is doomed to fail. The draft and IFA signings/acquisitions are where it's at. Who knows how many guys we have now will be part of our future? Some, for sure, but that's part of the fun of this rebuild is that we just don't know who, but players will surprise us.

[Roll Tide]

7 hours ago, Sessh said:

It doesn't seem like he quoted Elias, but it does seem consistent with what he has said his plans are to rebuild the organization. He said this during his introduction.

..and he has put considerable effort into building that pipeline by expanding international efforts. If Elias' plan was to make trades to acquire elite prospects, then he was a fool because we had nothing to trade for such prospects. The only way to do that is through the draft and internationally which is what he is doing. So, although he did not quote Elias (that I can find), it sure does seem to be the case here. I am sure Elias would accept an elite prospect in a trade if he could get one, but chances are not likely for that to happen. Even if we could get one, using this method to rebuild the organization is doomed to fail. The draft and IFA signings/acquisitions are where it's at. Who knows how many guys we have now will be part of our future? Some, for sure, but that's part of the fun of this rebuild is that we just don't know who, but players will surprise us.

That quote doesn't contradict what Elias is looking for in trades. I believe I read by one of the MASN guys the younger prospect part. But maybe I didn't! I'd be interested in knowing where he got that info from. Hopefully it was the mouse in his pocket. Either way, I'm okay with younger And therefore further away.

The other article about Givens indicated that the price for him was believed to be an organizational top 10, a lottery ticket guy, and perhaps a third based on heavy interest.

[sportsfan8703]

We gotta get better sources. The posters on here are more informed that some random blogger. 

Back on topic, the best thing happening for us in potentially trading Givens is the market might not be as bad for sellers as was thought.

The “experts” have all assumed the Indians were going to sell on Bauer. I don’t see that happening. The Giants are making a little run. My hope is that the more teams that don’t sell in turn makes the teams on the fence have to buy. Not mortgage the future, but pick up a reliever or bench bat, for the stretch run. This helps Givens and Villar. 

[weams]

21 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We gotta get better sources. The posters on here are more informed that some random blogger. 

Back on topic, the best thing happening for us in potentially trading Givens is the market might not be as bad for sellers as was thought.

The “experts” have all assumed the Indians were going to sell on Bauer. I don’t see that happening. The Giants are making a little run. My hope is that the more teams that don’t sell in turn makes the teams on the fence have to buy. Not mortgage the future, but pick up a reliever or bench bat, for the stretch run. This helps Givens and Villar. 

Yes. And this front office is not giving up much information to anyone. 

[VaBird1]

8 minutes ago, weams said:

Yes. And this front office is not giving up much information to anyone. 

And they all seem to be pulling in the same direction.  (Thankfully)

[interloper]

12 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Well he quotes Elias .....Regardless of the power of the source I post them to add something to talk about. If Elias really didn't say that I'd be disappointed for sure.

A quote usually contains, you know, quotation marks.