Extending Home Grown vs FA

[Roll Tide]

No because when Hamilton makes us better and we make the playoffs we get more revenue so then in 2 years we can then spend 200M in payroll which means we will have more room to pay those players.

No, they don't see.

Sounds like your putting words in others mouths again. I dont see any posts by anybody here saying thy think the O's can afford a $200 million payroll or anywhere close. We know what side of discussion you are on...let's stick to that rather than making up stupid stuff for the other side.

[Roll Tide]

This team will have a payroll close to $100 mm next year even if they don't sign a big star. They probably could sign Hamilton and keep payroll under $120 mm for 2013. After that, it gets harder.

And so you will have to make some tough decisions later. But revenue is going up and that will wash out some of this. And I don't think Wieters will ever be worth that kind of money your talking about. I hope your right and his best days re ahead....I just don't see it.

[Roll Tide]

I take the younger player every single day of the week and twice on Sunday, without thinking twice. It isn't even a decision.

We have more than enough circumstantial evidence to suggest we do know what they are capable of IMO.

No one is asking to spend $200 million and be the Yankees. Just bump the payroll up from $100 to $120 million and this team will flat out contend year in and year out, because there will be that one superstar added to an already good playoff team and core. The Jays could have "stayed pat" but guess what, they saw the writing on the wall and have been acting accordingly recently. I just wish the O's would do the same. They still might, and if they do I will be the first one singing their praises. It isn't that much a payroll difference, but I think it makes the team so much better overall.

I am holding out hope.

Just think the margin for error is too small going with what we have into next year and the couple after that.

The problem is the Orioles don't have a Hamilton/Fielder/Votto/Cabrera type bat on its roster. I don't believe they have one in thir system either. Problem is the same guys that say not to sign Hamilton also don't want to trade away the value it would take to accomplish it the other way. Our high draft picks are over now so you're not getting another high draft pick at least for another year maybe two. And they've spent those picks on pitching instead.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm curious to see what MSK and the rest of the SPEND SPEND SPEND crowd would be saying if we weren't in the AL East with the Yankees and Sox.

I'm convinced that because we're juxtaposed with these two franchises and have watched them spend ungodly amounts of money for over 10 years makes people around here want to just dish out contracts left and right "because they do it!!!"

If we were competing with the Indians and Royals every year, I'm willing to bet this board would have a drastically different tone/attitude towards spending and FA.

[Roll Tide]

I'm curious to see what MSK and the rest of the SPEND SPEND SPEND crowd would be saying if we weren't in the AL East with the Yankees and Sox.

I'm convinced that because we're juxtaposed with these two franchises and have watched them spend ungodly amounts of money for over 10 years makes people around here want to just dish out contracts left and right "because they do it!!!"

If we were competing with the Indians and Royals every year, I'm willing to bet this board would have a drastically different tone/attitude towards spending and FA.

Doubt it ...Check the Royals fan site

[scOtt]

We are at about $120 mm for 2013 keeping Reynolds and McLouth with X free agent (obv Grienke/Hamilton)

How does it get harder after that? We have money coming off the books every year until 2014, and then it is just Jones and presumably Wieters making the "big" money. Between the two they will probably be $20 mm between the two, maybe $22 mm at the most if we extend Wieters. Don't see how it gets harder at all.

Who is "the core" moving forward that we will have big bucks tied into? Jones, Wieters and who else?

Because we have to have a roster of 25 players. Hell, you need 35+ ML or near-ML talent to have a chance all year. I think we had 50+ on the team this past year.

[CA-ORIOLE]

None of us have the full facts about the Orioles' economics, and I just don't feel like driving myself crazy wishing the Orioles were going to suddenly decide to increase payroll by 30-50%. Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't, but they clearly aren't going to, so I'd rather think about how to spend the money they are willing to spend, instead of thinking about how to spend money they aren't willing to spend.

This post really says it all.

[MemorialStadKid]

I'm curious to see what MSK and the rest of the SPEND SPEND SPEND crowd would be saying if we weren't in the AL East with the Yankees and Sox.

I'm convinced that because we're juxtaposed with these two franchises and have watched them spend ungodly amounts of money for over 10 years makes people around here want to just dish out contracts left and right "because they do it!!!"

If we were competing with the Indians and Royals every year, I'm willing to bet this board would have a drastically different tone/attitude towards spending and FA.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

How did I get lumped in with a crowd?

I don't advocate - nor did I ever - reckless, endless spending.

But not spending when we CAN while other teams improve around us is a very bad thing.

Again, this is not a controversial idea.

MSK

[Annie]

You can sit here all day and argue that we don't have to choose. None of us have the full facts about the Orioles' economics, and I just don't feel like driving myself crazy wishing the Orioles were going to suddenly decide to increase payroll by 30-50%. Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't, but they clearly aren't going to, so I'd rather think about how to spend the money they are willing to spend, instead of thinking about how to spend money they aren't willing to spend.

Ditto.

[Brendan25]

I take the younger player every single day of the week and twice on Sunday, without thinking twice. It isn't even a decision.

We have more than enough circumstantial evidence to suggest we do know what they are capable of IMO.

No one is asking to spend $200 million and be the Yankees. Just bump the payroll up from $100 to $120 million and this team will flat out contend year in and year out, because there will be that one superstar added to an already good playoff team and core. The Jays could have "stayed pat" but guess what, they saw the writing on the wall and have been acting accordingly recently. I just wish the O's would do the same. They still might, and if they do I will be the first one singing their praises. It isn't that much a payroll difference, but I think it makes the team so much better overall.

I am holding out hope.

Just think the margin for error is too small going with what we have into next year and the couple after that.

And my point has been if we don't get Hamilton, who do you want the O's to get to bring the payroll up to where you want it? I understand being mad at not getting a free agent that you want because the O's can afford it. I can argue with you about that. A worse argument is saying the O's should have a higher payroll next year just because they can afford it.

Sounds like your putting words in others mouths again. I dont see any posts by anybody here saying thy think the O's can afford a $200 million payroll or anywhere close. We know what side of discussion you are on...let's stick to that rather than making up stupid stuff for the other side.

You still are tap dancing around the original question like you're best at and just disagreeing with a small point I made.

[Roll Tide]

And my point has been if we don't get Hamilton, who do you want the O's to get to bring the payroll up to where you want it? I understand being mad at not getting a free agent that you want because the O's can afford it. I can argue with you about that. A worse argument is saying the O's should have a higher payroll next year just because they can afford it.

You still are tap dancing around the original question like you're best at and just disagreeing with a small point I made.

I'm not tap dancing around anything and I answered the question, go back and look. I'm not disagreeing with a small point you made. I want to see proof where anybody here mentioned the Orioles affording a $200 Million payroll. You make a smart ass remark that has no merit and offers little value to the conversation. Why dont you stick to arguing your side rather than what you did in the post that I responded to.

[McNulty]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

How did I get lumped in with a crowd?

I don't advocate - nor did I ever - reckless, endless spending.

But not spending when we CAN while other teams improve around us is a very bad thing.

Again, this is not a controversial idea.

MSK

You lump people into crowds (incorrectly) all the time!!!

[MemorialStadKid]

You lump people into crowds (incorrectly) all the time!!!

So you're saying there's NOT a group of people who don't ever, ever, ever want the Orioles to spend money on superstar FAs?

Okay.

MSK

[DrungoHazewood]

So you're saying there's NOT a group of people who don't ever, ever, ever want the Orioles to spend money on superstar FAs?

Okay.

MSK

I don't know of any such group. I don't think there's anyone here (outside of a small handful of cranks) who would be upset if the O's acquired a superstar who made $20M a year tomorrow.

But there is a significant group of people who like debating the merits of various hypothetical acquisitions within the real world constraints the O's operate under. And by "debate" I mean more than a cursory "Angelos hates us and will never sign any expensive players". Just because someone says Josh Hamilton is too risky given his history and likely price point doesn't mean their position is anything like "don't ever, ever, ever want the Orioles to spend money on superstar FAs".

[Frobby]

So you're saying there's NOT a group of people who don't ever, ever, ever want the Orioles to spend money on superstar FAs?

Okay.

MSK

There's probably almost nobody in the category you've described, but there are a lot of people who want to do it only if (1) the player isn't grossly overpriced, and (2) it won't preclude the team from doing other things. I think you'd find a lot of people who'd love to have Josh Hamilton at 4/$75 mm, but not many who'd want him at 6/$150 mm. Trouble is, it only takes one GM who thinks 6/$150 mm is a good idea....