Every time the O's start Blach they are tanking

[thezeroes]

Just a thought in reality, the L A Dodgers have scored 7 or more runs in 52 games. 

Is that to say that there have been 52 other in game pitchers that are tanking??

[OFFNY]

o

 

A really bad team like the Orioles doesn't have to do much other than give their best effort in order to tank.

it would be sort of like the 1972 and 1973 Houston Oilers, who went 1-13 in back-to-back seasons, using their 2nd-string quarterback instead of Dan Pastorini ........ perhaps Pastorini was better than the guy coming off of the bench, but they were going to lose the game(s) regardless.

 

o

[interloper]

They're definitely tanking and I personally am loving it.

[interloper]

Don't hate the player (Elias), hate the game (baseball's broken ass system). Until it gets fixed, tanking is one of the most effective strategies to get better.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I suppose I meant more from a front office perspective; Elias could control how well this team does by not hiring players, not hiring good players, not promoting certain players, thereby affecting how many wins this team has.

Can anyone truly tell if this team is bad because we’re going about a serious rebuild or are the Orioles designed to chase the #1 draft pick?

Some people would argue you should attempt to win a World Series every year and to do anything to the contrary is to lose on purpose (aka “tank”). Others would say an organized approach to winning a future World Series isn’t “tanking”, just “rebuilding”.

I’m not convinced the Orioles are chasing the #1 draft pick.

And he's done just that this year. I don't think Elias intended to do anything other than have one of, if not the worse records in baseball. But that's all part of the big picture. Lose now, get great draft picks, build an international pipeline, rebuild, then maintain. 

Elias is a smart guy and he realizes what needs to be done. He's shrewd enough to tall just enough to let us understand, but is not going to come right out and say, "Yes, this is why Blach and Brooks are getting starts every 5 days!"

This year made total sense, even if it's not a lot of fun to go through. 

Next year, I don't think Elias intends to try and contend (now could he really) but I do think we will start to see actually prospects that could be part of a winning future. 

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

How does one define “inning eater”?

all the guys have thrown too many pitches and given up too many runs to last long. Even if a guy has stamina, unless you’re going to have him throw 6-7 innings regardless of the score, which has never happened, I can’t put any of them in that category.

do we have anyone who fits the definition, whatever that definition is?

It used to mean a pitcher who was only about average or even a little below, but who pitched an above average number of innings and thus spared the bullpen some work.   In his early years, Sidney Ponson fit that bill.    (Insert obvious joke about eating here.)

Edit — I just saw Tony’s post explaining that he was talking about an innings eater out of the bullpen, capable of going 3-5 innings if needed.    

[FlipTheBird]

2 hours ago, atomic said:

I hope they sign a bunch of guys to minor league deals with opt outs. And get a couple of guys better than DFA guys to be starters.  Trumbo and Cashner's salaries are gone so they can spend $5 million on a starter or two.  I see no reason to do another year like this one with a total tank job. Time to start moving away from being the worst team in the league. 

Why? They're not going to be a winning team next year, either. I really don't care who's doing the pitching. The end result will be the same: the Orioles won't be in the playoffs. Winning 70 games means nothing to me.

[SteveA]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

And he's done just that this year. I don't think Elias intended to do anything other than have one of, if not the worse records in baseball. But that's all part of the big picture. Lose now, get great draft picks, build an international pipeline, rebuild, then maintain. 

Elias is a smart guy and he realizes what needs to be done. He's shrewd enough to tall just enough to let us understand, but is not going to come right out and say, "Yes, this is why Blach and Brooks are getting starts every 5 days!"

This year made total sense, even if it's not a lot of fun to go through. 

Next year, I don't think Elias intends to try and contend (now could he really) but I do think we will start to see actually prospects that could be part of a winning future. 

Right.   I don't think he's going to hold guys back substantially if they are ready.   (Ready as defined by him and the process, not by the fans).   If Akin is "ready", I don't think he would keep him down and pitch a Blach type instead.

I don't know that he's going to do much of what Atomic suggests and go out and sign major league veterans to supplant the Blach's and Wojo's though.   Although remember, he did do that this year -- signing both Straily and Karns.   Because those were failures we tend to forget that he did actually get major league veterans to try to eat some innings.

[atomic]

7 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Why? They're not going to be a winning team next year, either. I really don't care who's doing the pitching. The end result will be the same: the Orioles won't be in the playoffs. Winning 70 games means nothing to me.

It means something to the fans. It is the difference between going to games or staying home.

[atomic]

4 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Right.   I don't think he's going to hold guys back substantially if they are ready.   (Ready as defined by him and the process, not by the fans).   If Akin is "ready", I don't think he would keep him down and pitch a Blach type instead.

I don't know that he's going to do much of what Atomic suggests and go out and sign major league veterans to supplant the Blach's and Wojo's though.   Although remember, he did do that this year -- signing both Straily and Karns.   Because those were failures we tend to forget that he did actually get major league veterans to try to eat some innings.

Straily and Karns were worthless signings and I said so much at the time about Karns.  I mean guys of Bundy's abilities. Can get 5 innings a game at an ERA in the lower 5's.  

[Philip]

11 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

Why? They're not going to be a winning team next year, either. I really don't care who's doing the pitching. The end result will be the same: the Orioles won't be in the playoffs. Winning 70 games means nothing to me.

The overall goal is of course to win a World Series, but if winning 70 games makes no difference than winning 45, And by definition you do not care about winning.. Winning 70 games means a hell of a lot to me, even though it is only a step towards the goal. I do not want to sacrifice the future to win 70 games, and I’m sure that is your overall point, but yes we want to win as many games as we can.

[Frobby]

Just now, atomic said:

It means something to the fans. It is the difference between going to games or staying home.

I agree with you here.    As a fan, I’d much rather watch a 70-win team than a 50-win team.    Because I enjoy every win.   And generally, the more wins, the fewer times you watch your team and feel they aren’t even playing major league quality baseball.   And I do think the worse the team is, the worse attendance will be.

With all that said, Elias may still feel that in the long run, the better move is to keep payroll as low as possible for one more year, use that money elsewhere or later, and accept that a worse team will get a better draft position.    And I’m okay if he goes that route, so long as there are some results down the road.

 

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

Straily and Karns were worthless signings and I said so much at the time about Karns.  I mean guys of Bundy's abilities. Can get 5 innings a game at an ERA in the lower 5's.  

Did we know Straily wasn't that guy when we signed him?

Karns was a complete crap shoot.   He had never been anything but a GOOD major league pitcher when healthy, but he was coming off nearly two full years of injury. 

 

[Philip]

15 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It used to mean a pitcher who was only about average or even a little below, but who pitched an above average number of innings and thus spared the bullpen some work.   In his early years, Sidney Ponson fit that bill.    (Insert obvious joke about eating here.)

Edit — I just saw Tony’s post explaining that he was talking about an innings eater out of the bullpen, capable of going 3-5 innings if needed.    

That is the definition I was looking for, and we don’t have anybody who fits that definition. Just because somebody’s crappy but has an arm that doesn’t fall off doesn’t mean he fits the bill. 

I actually think a genuine innings eater would be a valuable member of a staff. But we don’t have one.

[weams]

1 hour ago, thezeroes said:

Just a thought in reality, the L A Dodgers have scored 7 or more runs in 52 games. 

Is that to say that there have been 52 other in game pitchers that are tanking??

Blach wasn't near the worst.