What Do the Orioles See in Shawn Armstrong?

[HowAboutThat]

I like Shawn and he was a huge upgrade from Wright.

”what do they see?”

something they think they can improve, of course.

I prefer him to some other guys who threw a lot of innings last season, but he’s not the Risen Savior and I won’t weep bitter tears when he goes.

[weams]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

"I said no such thing."

This was referring to your rant about my tactics and statements in other threads dude. Time to let the attacks go. Unbecoming. 

[interloper]

Just now, weams said:

This was referring to your rant about my tactics and statements in other threads dude. Time to let the attacks go. Unbecoming. 

I deleted because I realized that was probably what you were referring to. I see what I see, and I don't agree with it.

I understand part of your role on the site is to be the guy that engages in the threads. Which is great when you're engaging people in worthwhile discussion and link dumps and the like. I dunno what some of these posts are though. 

Saying Givens is no worse than the other guys is still objectively false but at least not as wildly inflammatory. But that's not what you said. And you should be prepared to defend a position that is that easily refuted and out of left field.

My goal isn't to attack you personally, it's to defend the idea that this website is something more than people firing off questionable surface level opinions with no desire to flesh them out. This is the Orioles Hangout and we're better than that.

 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, weams said:

You misunderstood what I said again. I’m no debater. I told you. I would rather see Armstrong in the ninth with a lead and any lefties to face. I never said anything but. 

Interestingly, Armstrong has strong reverse splits.    In his career, .832 vs. RHB, .606 vs. LHB.    So if that holds, yeah I’d rather see Armstrong than Givens vs. a LHB.    But of course, most batters are RH and I’d much rather see Givens against them.  

One other point: RZNJ pointed out that Givens once had a year (it was 2016) where LHB had a 1.025 OPS against him, in addition to the .930 posted against him last year.    OK, but don’t just cherry pick the bad years:

2015: .555

2017: .619

2018: .687

So, it’s not like Givens is always bad vs. LHB.   Two years (including the most recent) he was, three years he was quite good against them.   We will see what 2020 brings.   
 

[interloper]

7 hours ago, mdbdotcom said:

He looks like a big nothing to me. I don't see why he's still on the team. He would have been one of my picks to DFA in December. Am I missing something? Is there any reason for him to still be on the roster other than the overall lack of big league pitching talent on the team?

 

7 hours ago, weams said:

Armstrong is probably better than Givens. But neither are too good. 

 

1 hour ago, weams said:

You misunderstood what I said again. I’m no debater. I told you. I would rather see Armstrong in the ninth with a lead and any lefties to face. I never said anything but. 

You of course DID say anything but. 

1. OP never mentions Givens, and doesn't mention Armstrong closing. Just to start with that. 

2. You literally say "Armstrong is probably better than Givens". Any sane person would take that at face value because you give no other details or context. 

3. Now you're saying it's on ME for misunderstanding that what you really meant by "Armstrong is probably better than Givens" is "I would rather see Armstrong in the ninth with a lead and any lefties to face." As if I am supposed to get all those details out of your original statement? 

Yeah. That's my mistake I guess. 

[mdbdotcom]

You guys make it easy to find something else to do when you snipe at each other over petty crap like this. 

You're both wrong ... you're both right ... who cares?

[interloper]

7 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

You guys make it easy to find something else to do when you snipe at each other over petty crap like this. 

You're both wrong ... you're both right ... who the f*ck cares?

Fair, but I'm not going to sit here and be told I misunderstood something when the post speaks for itself. It's not about me being right, it's about driving home the point that bad posts are bad for the board. 

Be more clear. Be prepared to back up hot takes. Don't change the facts later in the thread and say you meant something other than what you said. This is basic stuff. 

[Barnaby Graves]

Look at the passion in this thread, that's why Shawn Armstrong is here.  Look at the time real human beings are expending discussing the baseball career of Shawn Armstrong.  Now I'm doing it too.  It's contagious.  We have Shawn Armstrong fever.

[weams]

16 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Weams, you are a good guy and you do a great job keeping things going here but I have no idea what your point really was.   If it's that Givens is worse than Armstrong, I'd say I don't agree.   If it's that Givens will never be good again, I don't agree.   If it's that Givens is a decent reliever with some major flaws, then I agree.

I think it was more... Givens has limited value and should be traded the moment someone thinks he could be good again. And he should have been traded before now. And thanks. The pep talk means a lot coming from you. 

[HowAboutThat]

I left Camden Chat for value reasons. Too little insight, too much insult, including vile ones that were ignored. I come here and find intelligent and knowledgeable people with meaningful things to say. I’ve had to block a couple of contentious people( an option unavailable at SN Nation for some reason) But overall this is my favorite Orioles place.

I don’t have any problem with what Weams said. I disagree with it, but he stated it peacefully, and the reaction is a bit overboard. If it’s obviously incorrect, then it’s obviously incorrect, roll your eyes, and move on.

[ScGO's]

Armstrong had some good runs last year.  I still really like his slider.  I always noticed that he didn't do very well in high leverage situations and I said several times last year that I think he is a good candidate for Opener.  I am glad they brought him back, but he does need to tighten up his game this year early if he wants to stick around.

[Roll Tide]

15 hours ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I dunno, he was decent for a while last year after we acquired him. Numbers look worse because he was hellacious in a Mariners uniform. I doubt he's anything more than a decent middle reliever and maybe not even that.

The one I scratch my head about is Dwight Smith Jr. Like, he's a below replacement level outfielder who is what he is. Plus with the crowded outfield picture, how is he still here? He'd better not take at-bats from Hays, Santander, Mancini and Mountcastle

Mountcastle probably starts at AAA as pert of the service time game. Mancini should play at 1B. Smith fits in LF and DH. 

[sportsfan8703]

Armstrong is ahead of all the other RH 1IP relievers right now on the 40 man. Guys like Phillips, Carroll, and Sulser. 

[wildcard]

8 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Armstrong is ahead of all the other RH 1IP relievers right now on the 40 man. Guys like Phillips, Carroll, and Sulser. 

Harvey, Givens and probably Castro are ahead of Armstrong IMO.    Armstrong tried and failed last year.  I want to see Sulser get a chance.

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Harvey, Givens and probably Castro are ahead of Armstrong IMO.    Armstrong tried a failed last year.  I want to see Sulser get a chance.

I thought it was a given that Givens, Harvey, and Castro were ahead of Armstrong.  Plus I was trying to compare Armstrong to pitchers in a similar situation.  Primarily 1 IP, RH relievers.