I'm Ready for Mountcastle and Diaz: Mountcastle Up, Diaz Still Waiting

[Enjoy Terror]

52 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It makes sense to trade him..provided that you get back a young, cost controlled player.

I can't even really recall a time when a team just traded a prospect for another prospect.

I'm sure it's happened but that's not a popular event.

[Sports Guy]

39 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

So get rid of the bad ones, not the best hitting prospect in our system.

Well first of all, he’s not the best hitting prospect in the system.

Secondly, I’m ok with getting rid of other guys and keeping Mountcastle but the question is who and can you get any value for them?

Sisco’s long term value is likely DH/1st/C...maybe you are ok with him as a back up C..maybe.

Nunez, who is already hitting at a level where we hope Mountcastle will and still only 26 is a possible trade guy but what do you get for him?

Mancini has him own issues but hopefully will never be looked as an OFer again.  I’m certainly ok with trading him but can you get more than a bag of baseballs for him?

The premise here would be that Mountcastle can be the player or the main player to bring you back a piece that you lack..say a young, cost controlled pitcher, MIer or maybe third baseman.

If he isn’t that player and can’t bring you back anything, of course you keep him.  But would I rather have Sisco and Nunez and a significant piece at another position?  Yes I would.

Now, maybe Nunez has more value than Mountcastle. If so, trade him.

Basically, I’m trading whoever brings us back the most.  My suspicion is that it’s Mountcastle.  
 

We can’t keep them all.

[Can_of_corn]

Nunez has a 103 OPS+.  I hope Mountcastle can surpass that.

[Sports Guy]

51 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

But why would you trade Mountcastle when you can just cut Smith Jr and bench Davis and eventually cut him?  Nunez has taken over 1B so Mountcastle can get his ABs at DH and LF. 

Because it’s not this simple long term.

Thats the solution for right now (and it’s a good solution btw).

But long term, the hope is that you have guys like Santander, Diaz and/or Kjerstad on the corners, so LF isn’t there for him (and it likely shouldn’t be anyway).

So it goes back to Sisco, Mountcastle, Mancini and Nunez.  I’m less worried about Sisco but I’m not ready to discount him.  He will get on base and take walks, so he has a lot of value if he can hit at this level.

Look, this isn’t some insurmountable thing to overcome.  It likely will work itself out without doing much.  But, as of right now, decisions will need to be made and part of that decision making process should be, which player nets us the most value and is that value enough to trade them over what another player can get us. That’s really what it will boil down to.

 

[Sports Guy]

24 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I can't even really recall a time when a team just traded a prospect for another prospect.

I'm sure it's happened but that's not a popular event.

It happens but it’s not an everyday occurrence.

That being said, the player doesn’t have to be a prospect.  They could be someone with very little ML experience.

[Camden_yardbird]

24 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I can't even really recall a time when a team just traded a prospect for another prospect.

I'm sure it's happened but that's not a popular event.

Tyler O'Neill for Marco Gonzalez?

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Nunez has a 103 OPS+.  I hope Mountcastle can surpass that.

Mountcastle is very likely going to have an OBP of 330 or worse.  He’s going to need to have a slugging in the 480 or higher range to provide real value because he’s so bad with the glove.

Nunez is already showing he will take more walks and has big power.  Whether he can ever hit for enough of an average remains to be seen but it’s hardly a slam dunk that Mountcastle will be a better player than Nunez.

[survivedc]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because it’s not this simple long term.

Thats the solution for right now (and it’s a good solution btw).

But long term, the hope is that you have guys like Santander, Diaz and/or Kjerstad on the corners, so LF isn’t there for him (and it likely shouldn’t be anyway).

So it goes back to Sisco, Mountcastle, Mancini and Nunez.  I’m less worried about Sisco but I’m not ready to discount them.  He will get on base and take walks, so he has a lot of value if he can hit at this level.

Look, this isn’t some insurmountable thing to overcome.  It likely will work itself out without doing much.  But, as of right now, decisions will need to be made and part of that decision making process should be, which player nets us the most value and is that value enough to trade them over what another player can get us. That’s really what it will boil down to.

 

I’m confused as to why you’d count on Diaz being a More valuable MLer than Mountcastle. Also, while Núñez has shown his value I wouldn’t plan on holding onto him over RM, and honestly the same can be said about Mancini. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Mountcastle is very likely going to have an OBP of 330 or worse.  He’s going to need to have a slugging in the 480 or higher range to provide real value because he’s so bad with the glove.

Nunez is already showing he will take more walks and has big power.  Whether he can ever hit for enough of an average remains to be seen but it’s hardly a slam dunk that Mountcastle will be a better player than Nunez.

Nunez has a career OBP of 314.

I'm going to weigh ~900 ab more than I am the most recent 88.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, survivedc said:

I’m confused as to why you’d count on Diaz being a More valuable MLer than Mountcastle. Also, while Núñez has shown his value I wouldn’t plan on holding onto him over RM, and honestly the same can be said about Mancini. 

Diaz can play in the field.  Diaz has more value on the bases I believe.  Diaz will walk.  

His biggest issue has been health and getting consistent at bats because of that health. If he’s healthy, he’s the better overall prospect.

But availability is the best ability, so he has to prove that first.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Nunez has a career OBP of 314.

I'm going to weigh ~900 ab more than I am the most recent 88.

Good for you...but that’s irrelevant to my point.

As I said, Nunez has to prove he can hit for a good enough average.  If he is going to hit for a sub 240 average, he will be a borderline everyday player.  But he will take a walk, so he can make up for some of that with his walk rate.  Mountcastle hasn’t shown he can do that and with his K numbers, I don’t know that I expect him to hit for some great average either.

I suspect Mountcastle will be a player very similar to Mancini.  He may Pop a year here or there where he has an 850 OPS or better but will usually be a 780-820 type guy.

My hope for him is that he shows enough power and hits for a good enough average that teams will have to pitch around him some and he develops that plate discipline.  Mancini has kind of done that although Trey usually gives you good at bats.  I’m not sure if Mountcastle will be that type of player.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Good for you...but that’s irrelevant to my point.

As I said, Nunez has to prove he can hit for a good enough average.  If he is going to hit for a sub 240 average, he will be a borderline everyday player.  But he will take a walk, so he can make up for some of that with his walk rate.  Mountcastle hasn’t shown he can do that and with his K numbers, I don’t know that I expect him to hit for some great average either.

I suspect Mountcastle will be a player very similar to Mancini.  He may Pop a year here or there where he has an 850 OPS or better but will usually be a 780-820 type guy.

My hope for him is that he shows enough power and hits for a good enough average that teams will have to pitch around him some and he develops that plate discipline.  Mancini has kind of done that although Trey usually gives you good at bats.  I’m not sure if Mountcastle will be that type of player.

No it isn't.  Your point is based off of Nunez being someone with a career OBP of 314 and a career OPS+ of 103.  He's a DH.  You don't block a fringe top 100 prospect for those numbers.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

No it isn't.  Your point is based off of Nunez being someone with a career OBP of 314 and a career OPS+ of 103.  He's a DH.  You don't block a fringe top 100 prospect for those numbers.

Yes it is because I’m already acknowledging that he has to hit for a higher average however, unlike Mountcastle, he does walk.

As for blocking Mountcastle, that isn’t the issue today.  The Os can give all of these guys enough at bats right now.  He has to come up and show he is ready.

This isn’t a conversation about whether or not he should be blocked right now. It’s about value and trading a guy at the right time.  
 

A lot of guys on the Ml roster are performing well with the bat and took good strides in their first real chance last year as well.  You have young players who will be coming up that are far more capable of playing LF, for example and have the same upside with the bat.  

So yes, decisions will need to be made and a majority of that decision will revolve around value.  That’s just a fact.  It doesn’t mean they will trade the guy with the most value but it will certainly be part of the s decision making in this instance.

[NCRaven]

Marlins promote Sixto Sanchez today.

Giant promote Joey Bart today.

Casey Mize debuted for Detroit yesterday.

Brendon Rodgers is up for the Rockies.

Carter Kieboom is playing for the Nats.

FREE RYAN MOUNTCASTLE!  ATTICA! ATTICA!

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

Marlins promote Sixto Sanchez today.

Giant promote Joey Bart today.

Casey Mize debuted for Detroit yesterday.

Brendon Rodgers is up for the Rockies.

Carter Kieboom is playing for the Nats.

FREE RYAN MOUNTCASTLE!  ATTICA! ATTICA!

 

I'm going to add Bart to my list when folks start talking about why Elias is right for not promoting AR.