Os system up to 8th according to MLB.com

[hoosiers]

2 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I'm honestly not satisfied with this ranking. By the time this tank-rebuild is ready to move forward, I expect that the system should be ranked top 3. Stack the deck on the farm so heavily that you can't miss no matter what. Otherwise you put the fans through a half decade of crap baseball for nothing.

I'm still on board with the strategy and I'm not saying that they're behind-schedule... but the farm system has a ways to go still before I'm happy..

It might not get where you want.  Mountcastle is graduating soon. Rutschman will possibly graduate next year.  GRodriguez and DL Hall might get to the majors in 2021-22. 

We might not be picking in the top 5 in the draft in a while. 

The system will move forward ranking-wise when someone like Gunnar Henderson has a big year and joins the top 100 or a couple of international prospects develop into our top 5-10 - which might not happen for another two or three years - when the first of the Elias/Perez international signees make it to High A or AA. 

We certainly don't need a top 3 system to compete.  When guys like Chance Sisco and Ryan Mountcastle and John Means don't make the top 100, it just shows that the rankings are a subjective because it is certainly possible that a couple of those guys could be good contributors on our next competitive team.  

[Redskins Rick]

16 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I'm honestly not satisfied with this ranking. By the time this tank-rebuild is ready to move forward, I expect that the system should be ranked top 3. Stack the deck on the farm so heavily that you can't miss no matter what. Otherwise you put the fans through a half decade of crap baseball for nothing.

I'm still on board with the strategy and I'm not saying that they're behind-schedule... but the farm system has a ways to go still before I'm happy..

Im satisfied that its a huge step in the right direction, especially considering the time the relatively short time they have been in charge.

They do have work to do, because I will be satisfied, but the goal is in sight. IMO

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, jerios55 said:

For those asking about PTBNL.  There is a bit more in the article, but this is the meat of it.  Elias hasn't confirmed, but it seems he already knows the players and it would make sense it was part of the trade negotiation.  I think sometimes it can be a list of a few guys and determined later, but that wouldn't make much sense if those guys aren't playing baseball right now.

With no minors, there are no trades for players that aren't on the 60 man pool for 2020.  So I would assume, these players that fall into teams 20+ prospect range that have not been added. 

Based on trades we have seen the ME style and the fact these guys aren't on the 60 man pool, they are likely younger and/or international players.  I personally think these PTBNL will fall into the 20-40 range for us and not necessarily impact the overall ranking much, while still giving us a deeper system (guess it depends if rankings are quality or quantity driven, sure they all vary a bit).  If we find guys that develop in line with the plan, these lower level guys may change that in the future, but we will need to have minor league season to see it. 

Now if a PTBNL ranks 10-15 for us maybe it's different, I just don't know how many of those guys wouldn't be on a 60 man pool right now.

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/08/elias-on-trades-departed-players-and-status-of-rebuild.html

 

 

The exception to this might be the player in the Castro trade. The additional player or cash might be determined by how Castro performs. I don’t know what the Orioles would by looking for a modest amount of cash in these deals.

[CallMeBrooksie]

1 hour ago, hoosiers said:

It might not get where you want.  Mountcastle is graduating soon. Rutschman will possibly graduate next year.  GRodriguez and DL Hall might get to the majors in 2021-22. 

We might not be picking in the top 5 in the draft in a while. 

The system will move forward ranking-wise when someone like Gunnar Henderson has a big year and joins the top 100 or a couple of international prospects develop into our top 5-10 - which might not happen for another two or three years - when the first of the Elias/Perez international signees make it to High A or AA. 

We certainly don't need a top 3 system to compete.  When guys like Chance Sisco and Ryan Mountcastle and John Means don't make the top 100, it just shows that the rankings are a subjective because it is certainly possible that a couple of those guys could be good contributors on our next competitive team.  

With the understanding that these rankings sometimes miss on guys for a variety of reasons, our farm system needs to produce like a top 3 system even after the graduation of Adley, Rodriguez and Mountcastle. It shouldn't need top 5 picks every year to accomplish this, but we should be using these years of top 5 picks to set ourselves up for this moving forward.

If our system goes back to middling after graduating a few guys at the top, then this was all a failure. If all it produces is another 4-5 year window with one group of guys like we just witnessed, then the tank wasn't worth it IMO. You need sustained success and we won't do that in our division without a farm system like Tampa's.

I'm happy with the job Elias has done so far, but the reality is that this is a harsh way to treat the fan-base and the goal should be that this never has to happen again for a long time.

[CallMeBrooksie]

1 hour ago, Redskins Rick said:

Im satisfied that its a huge step in the right direction, especially considering the time the relatively short time they have been in charge.

They do have work to do, because I will be satisfied, but the goal is in sight. IMO

I agree with all of that. I'm just acknowledging out loud that this is a risky strategy that either works perfectly or it wasn't quite worth the sacrifice.

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, hoosiers said:

It might not get where you want.  Mountcastle is graduating soon. Rutschman will possibly graduate next year.  GRodriguez and DL Hall might get to the majors in 2021-22. 

We might not be picking in the top 5 in the draft in a while. 

The system will move forward ranking-wise when someone like Gunnar Henderson has a big year and joins the top 100 or a couple of international prospects develop into our top 5-10 - which might not happen for another two or three years - when the first of the Elias/Perez international signees make it to High A or AA. 

We certainly don't need a top 3 system to compete.  When guys like Chance Sisco and Ryan Mountcastle and John Means don't make the top 100, it just shows that the rankings are a subjective because it is certainly possible that a couple of those guys could be good contributors on our next competitive team.  

Sisco and Mountcastle both made top 100 lists.

https://www.mlb.com/news/chance-sisco-named-on-top-100-prospects-list-c214551404

https://birdswatcher.com/2019/07/02/baltimore-orioles-where-orioles-prospects-rank-in-updated-baseball-america-top-100/

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, hoosiers said:

It might not get where you want.  Mountcastle is graduating soon. Rutschman will possibly graduate next year.  GRodriguez and DL Hall might get to the majors in 2021-22. 

We might not be picking in the top 5 in the draft in a while. 

The system will move forward ranking-wise when someone like Gunnar Henderson has a big year and joins the top 100 or a couple of international prospects develop into our top 5-10 - which might not happen for another two or three years - when the first of the Elias/Perez international signees make it to High A or AA. 

We certainly don't need a top 3 system to compete.  When guys like Chance Sisco and Ryan Mountcastle and John Means don't make the top 100, it just shows that the rankings are a subjective because it is certainly possible that a couple of those guys could be good contributors on our next competitive team.  

The obsession with these rankings goes too far.  

Back when we made all the trades, I wanted Lux and May for Manny and Deivi Garcia for Britton.  Now, I don't know that those teams would have traded those players but at the time, neither Lux or May was a top 100 guy and Garcia wasn't even top 10 in the Yankees organization.  People said to me that you have get top 100 guys for these players.  Well, as it turns out, we would have been far better off with these deals vs what happened.

I bring this up because of the idea of a prospect must be ranked here or there to be legit prospect.  That's bs.  Identifying guys in the lower minors who have yet to blow up is always worth looking into.   Just don't get too wrapped up in these rankings.  They are good to talk about and its nice to see things moving in the right direction but being a system that can stay very good as guys move up to the majors or get traded is what you want to be able to do.

[hoosiers]

14 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

With the understanding that these rankings sometimes miss on guys for a variety of reasons, our farm system needs to produce like a top 3 system even after the graduation of Adley, Rodriguez and Mountcastle. It shouldn't need top 5 picks every year to accomplish this, but we should be using these years of top 5 picks to set ourselves up for this moving forward.

If our system goes back to middling after graduating a few guys at the top, then this was all a failure. If all it produces is another 4-5 year window with one group of guys like we just witnessed, then the tank wasn't worth it IMO. You need sustained success and we won't do that in our division without a farm system like Tampa's.

I'm happy with the job Elias has done so far, but the reality is that this is a harsh way to treat the fan-base and the goal should be that this never has to happen again for a long time.

Need a farm system like Tampa's.  Check.

As long as that is the secret plan and no other organization in baseball is trying to accomplish the same thing, you may be onto something!

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The obsession with these rankings goes too far.  

Back when we made all the trades, I wanted Lux and May for Manny and Deivi Garcia for Britton.  Now, I don't know that those teams would have traded those players but at the time, neither Lux or May was a top 100 guy and Garcia wasn't even top 10 in the Yankees organization.  People said to me that you have get top 100 guys for these players.  Well, as it turns out, we would have been far better off with these deals vs what happened.

I bring this up because of the idea of a prospect must be ranked here or there to be legit prospect.  That's bs.  Identifying guys in the lower minors who have yet to blow up is always worth looking into.   Just don't get too wrapped up in these rankings.  They are good to talk about and its nice to see things moving in the right direction but being a system that can stay very good as guys move up to the majors or get traded is what you want to be able to do.

The obsession hasn't gone too far, YOU'VE gone too far with your comments, SG.  Org rankings are everything, FOH with rolling the dice on guys in the lower minors who haven't blown up.  

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

Need a farm system like Tampa's.  Check.

As long as that is the secret plan and no other organization in baseball is trying to accomplish the same thing, you may be onto something!

Oh like the O's can compete for International players like Wander Franco with the big market Rays.

[VaBird1]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sisco and Mountcastle both made top 100 lists.

https://www.mlb.com/news/chance-sisco-named-on-top-100-prospects-list-c214551404

https://birdswatcher.com/2019/07/02/baltimore-orioles-where-orioles-prospects-rank-in-updated-baseball-america-top-100/

And Diaz at one point as well.

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Agreed.  We seem to have some high end talent but it falls off pretty quickly.

I don’t really agree.    I think we’ve got above average depth in the upper ranges at this point.    

[CallMeBrooksie]

2 hours ago, hoosiers said:

Need a farm system like Tampa's.  Check.

As long as that is the secret plan and no other organization in baseball is trying to accomplish the same thing, you may be onto something!

Not sure what you're trying to say. It's really besides the point I was making. But why wouldn't we try to emulate what Tampa has accomplished? They've consistently churned out quality big Leaguers under years of team control and been a good team without having to do a full out tank-mode rebuild. Is that the only thing you took away from my post? Because that wasn't my point at all.

[CallMeBrooksie]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t really agree.    I think we’ve got above average depth in the upper ranges at this point.    

I agree our depth on the farm is its biggest strength right now

[survivedc]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I don’t really agree.    I think we’ve got above average depth in the upper ranges at this point.    

I was impressed when I looked at the top 30 yesterday, it seemed like every player had a reasonable to reach ceiling. There aren’t a whole bunch of guys that have a couple tools they haven’t put together and we’re just hoping they will.