A few tidbits.....

[Tony-OH]

Then why did Lohse sign for that amount?

The Lohse's of the world do not sign with a team like the Orioles for that kind of money. They sign those deals with contenders knowing that it's their best chance to have a good year and turn that into a much bigger contract.

[DrungoHazewood]

And what do you think the collective ERA of Tomko, Hernandez and Benson would be because that's the talent level we are talking about for that little $.

The price of starting pitching has skyrocketed. Even the legitimate #4 starters are getting 8-10 million a season now.

If you want a quality stopgap, somebody who can eat innings and have an ERA below 5.00, you will have to pay 8-10 million a season for them.

I think you could sign Tomko, Hernandez, and Benson for very little, maybe less than a $million a year each, for one year. Not that anyone would sign all three of them. Maybe you take a chance on one of them if you can get them in on a NRI deal with incentives. Tomko is 6-19 with a 6.00 over the last two years, Hernandez got flat-out shelled this past year, and Benson hasn't pitched since 2006.

There are going to be options out there between the abysmal/injured guys you've named and the $8-10M starters.

It's probably not unreasonable to sign one or two guys with reasonable upside but recent issues that put them in a position to sign a 1-2 year deal at $4M per. Maybe even someone like Kenshin Kawakami.

[Mike B]

Starting pitching - The organization feels pretty good about a future rotation which will include Guthrie, Arrieta, Matsuz and Tillman. That being said they know we need to find a couple stop gaps for 2009. We will not be pursuing major pitching talents with big contracts. We'll be looking at 2 year deals and may target players similar to Lohse in 2008. Guys looking for major deals and getting no action. We will add 2 starting pitchers.

* not sure about this.. I'd still like to see AJ here.

Bullpen - This became a concern the last 2 months. Most of the power arms we have in the system proved they were not ready to handle MLB talent. We'll try to acquire a reliever or two via trade.

* makes sense.

Catcher - Ramon will be shopped and shopped hard. Most believe Weiters will be the opening day starter but who knows. IF he is we'll sign a upgraded backup catcher.

* I hope they will take anything decent for Ramon.

Shortstop - We'll spend here. Nothing in the pipe line so we'll look for a 2-3 year stop gap. A lot depends if arbitration is offered as we don't want to give up a draft pick. The top two free agent name he's heard are Furcal and Cabrera. He's also heard Peralta as a possible trade target.

*seems ok.

Firstbase - Tex will be pursued but the parameters will be in the 5-6 year at $15 million per season if that high. Huff is the fall back option. Looking for a run producer in this spot. I asked if a Giambi was an option ans was told no.

Some like Hank Blalock here but are pretty sure his option will be picked up by Texas.

* Uh oh... the board is gonna crash. If they are serious about offering Tex that $$ they would be better off not even trying - it will just P-off Boras at a future time we may need a "decent" relationship with him

BRob and Nick - Both will be offered extensions this offseason. No mention of money or years.

* Nick - YES. BRob still needs to be shopped but have no problem if he extends.

Depth - More effort will be put in to secure better quality depth at AAA.

* Been awhile since that has been considered

DCab - He thinks DCab is on the 2009 roster. Pretty sure he'll lose arbitraton if it goes that far.

* Groundhog Day

Young pitching - We will not be trading our young pitching. If anything 2008 proved the depth and quality was not as good as first thought.

* The best news!

I think you have summed it up well. I would love to have Tex but, and I am sure this will p off many, but to me 15 million a year is a solid offer to Tex. He is a very good player, a solid first baseman, but he does not deserve ARod or manny Ramirez/Miquel cabrera money. 5/75-80 is very fair to me, but because it is Boras and because the Yankees are involved it will not even pay the cab fare.

I agree with you. We must keep our young pitchers. Until they start to arrive and impact in a positive way our major league team we will not know what we have.

As for the catcher spot, I hope they take anything for Ramon. I have come to the conclusion that Ramon is one of the reasons that our young pitchers struggle so much. He is disinterested and horrible fundamentally behind the plate. How about Greg Zaun, Rod Barajas or a Gerald Laird as Wieters backup. All 3 would be solid defensively and contribute at the bat if Wieters struggles.

[JTrea81]

I think you have summed it up well. I would love to have Tex but, and I am sure this will p off many, but to me 15 million a year is a solid offer to Tex. He is a very good player, a solid first baseman, but he does not deserve ARod or manny Ramirez/Miquel cabrera money.

Tex has performed better than Miguel Cabrera this season both offensively and defensively and has almost been on par with A-Rod. He has a lifetime .919 OPS and has eclipsed a .950 OPS the past two seasons hitting 30+ HR and having 100+ RBI for 5 straight seasons. And he'll probably do that for another 4-5 seasons if not more. He's also a two time GG winner.

Why isn't he worth 18-20 million a year in this market?

[Sports Guy]

The Lohse's of the world do not sign with a team like the Orioles for that kind of money. They sign those deals with contenders knowing that it's their best chance to have a good year and turn that into a much bigger contract.

This is a good point Tony...For us to sign them, we have to go more years and money.

The guys we can sign for 1 year are going to be guys on their last legs, like Trax.

[clapdiddy]

This is a good point Tony...For us to sign them, we have to go more years and money.

The guys we can sign for 1 year are going to be guys on their last legs, like Trax.

Exactly right. If we would have finished strong this season, we may have been able to entice a veteran starter or two to come here, thinking they'd have a chance to be part of the turnaround.

With another lame finish, this team has no chance of luring any decent player here. We'll be scraping the bottom of the barrel this offseason.

[neveradoubt]

Starting pitching - The organization feels pretty good about a future rotation which will include Guthrie, Arrieta, Matsuz and Tillman. That being said they know we need to find a couple stop gaps for 2009. We will not be pursuing major pitching talents with big contracts. We'll be looking at 2 year deals and may target players similar to Lohse in 2008. Guys looking for major deals and getting no action. We will add 2 starting pitchers.

* not sure about this.. I'd still like to see AJ here.

Bullpen - This became a concern the last 2 months. Most of the power arms we have in the system proved they were not ready to handle MLB talent. We'll try to acquire a reliever or two via trade.

* makes sense.

Catcher - Ramon will be shopped and shopped hard. Most believe Weiters will be the opening day starter but who knows. IF he is we'll sign a upgraded backup catcher.

* I hope they will take anything decent for Ramon.

Shortstop - We'll spend here. Nothing in the pipe line so we'll look for a 2-3 year stop gap. A lot depends if arbitration is offered as we don't want to give up a draft pick. The top two free agent name he's heard are Furcal and Cabrera. He's also heard Peralta as a possible trade target.

*seems ok.

Firstbase - Tex will be pursued but the parameters will be in the 5-6 year at $15 million per season if that high. Huff is the fall back option. Looking for a run producer in this spot. I asked if a Giambi was an option ans was told no.

Some like Hank Blalock here but are pretty sure his option will be picked up by Texas.

* Uh oh... the board is gonna crash. If they are serious about offering Tex that $$ they would be better off not even trying - it will just P-off Boras at a future time we may need a "decent" relationship with him

BRob and Nick - Both will be offered extensions this offseason. No mention of money or years.

* Nick - YES. BRob still needs to be shopped but have no problem if he extends.

Depth - More effort will be put in to secure better quality depth at AAA.

* Been awhile since that has been considered

DCab - He thinks DCab is on the 2009 roster. Pretty sure he'll lose arbitraton if it goes that far.

* Groundhog Day

Young pitching - We will not be trading our young pitching. If anything 2008 proved the depth and quality was not as good as first thought.

* The best news!

I believe that Nick still has some hard feelings toward this organization. Doubt that he accepts any extension

[TyCobb]

Tex has performed better than Miguel Cabrera this season both offensively and defensively and has almost been on par with A-Rod. He has a lifetime .919 OPS and has eclipsed a .950 OPS the past two seasons.

Why isn't he worth 18-20 million a year in this market?

Miguel Cabrera was 25 when he got his deal. He also could play LF, 3b, and 1b. Before this season he put up 3, 150 OPS+ seasons. He is behind Pujols , but not far.

Tex will be 29. He has put back to back 150 OPS+ seasons. He plays 1b and great at it. Miguel Cabrera is definitely worth more than Tex, but I think the most I give Tex is 18 million.

Side note: I hope we trade Roberts and not bother extending.

[Sports Guy]

I believe that Nick still has some hard feelings toward this organization. Doubt that he accepts any extension

There isn't one ounce of evidence that supports this.

[LookinUp]

There isn't one ounce of evidence that supports this.

What if he did? Would you trade Markakis for a Bedard-like return?

[murrayfan420]

Tex has performed better than Miguel Cabrera this season both offensively and defensively and has almost been on par with A-Rod. He has a lifetime .919 OPS and has eclipsed a .950 OPS the past two seasons hitting 30+ HR and having 100+ RBI for 5 straight seasons. And he'll probably do that for another 4-5 seasons if not more. He's also a two time GG winner.

Why isn't he worth 18-20 million a year in this market?

Just what I was going to say...

I think the pendulem has swung from everyone wanting to give this guy a $200+ million contract to a consortium of people who think he's only worth $15 million, which just isn't the case. Whether or not you think these guys are paid too much it's the way the market for top tier players is moving.

[Sports Guy]

What if he did? Would you trade Markakis for a Bedard-like return?

Not yet..I would wait until the deadline or next offseason.

[geschinger]

Just what I was going to say...

I think the pendulem has swung from everyone wanting to give this guy a $200+ million contract to a consortium of people who think he's only worth $15 million, which just isn't the case. Whether or not you think these guys are paid too much it's the way the market for top tier players is moving.

Just like the economy as a whole, the baseball economy goes through cycles... There are peaks and values. At the top of the FA market it's not a straight line of rising salaries and it will never be a straight line of rising salaries. There will always be years where players get contracts that look ridiculous and there will be years like 2004 when the top of the FA market is down. The question is whether last year was a peak or will this year be a peak. The market will correct somewhat over the next couple of years as there are no new National TV deals to be negotiated, no new "new media" revenue, no new MLBEI deals to be negotiated etc...

Teams that understand the cycle and do not commit too many resources while the market it at its peak will have the opportunity to sign top caliber FA at what look like bargain prices in coming years.

[bpeerce]

Thanks for the info BB.

IMO, we really need to go after at least one of the top free agent starting pitchers. I guarantee they were thinking we were in good shape going forward with Guthrie, Loewen, Penn, and Olson. Well guess what, young pitching doesn't always pan out. I know the same can be said for veteran pitchers because of injury risk, but I would feel much safer with a proven pitcher.

No way even an infinite Pollyanna type could be confident in a rotation which uncluded Penn, Olson and Cabrera. As to pitchers at Norflok, Liz, Waters, and Burres were stop gaps. After his poor season Olson lacks something - unsure if its command, confidence, or arrogance, but he is NOT a starting pitcher for a AL east contender.

[LookinUp]

Unfortunately, I don't think the Yankees are having a recession given the new stadium. Even if they have only mild interest we'll have to beat 6/90.