FA 3B . Hmmm

[Philip]

I don’t think money is the driving force behind these personnel moves. Anybody who’s willing to spend $160 million on Davis, 47 million on Trumbo, 55 million on Jimenez, $55 million on Cobb, 11 million on Norris, etc, Is many things, but frugal is not one of them.

Although it’s outside the subject, I think they got rid of Brocail and Flores because they think they can do better.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to find $3 million shortstops who play like $9 million short stops.

I do not think Mike will sign any high dollar guys, but he might be interested in somebody like Panik.

Because we’re going to have a lot of Young pitching next year we really need to have solid, or at least better, defense behind them.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Philip

[Sydnor]

17 minutes ago, weams said:

I think it is part of the Athletic schtick at the very least. 

This is from the article:

“It’s pretty much the same thing they told (Brocail),” Flores said in a phone interview. “When I received the call from Mike, the GM, he just told me it was a decision that they really didn’t want to make, but that ownership had put pressure on him to decrease the budget and the staff, and I was one of the guys that they decided to let go.”

https://theathletic.com/2109598/2020/10/02/connolly-why-the-orioles-moved-on-from-coaches-doug-brocail-and-jose-flores/

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

I don’t think money is the driving force behind these personnel moves. Anybody who’s willing to spend $160 million on Davis, 47 million on Trumbo, 55 million on Jimenez, $55 million on Cobb, 1 million on Norris, etc, Is many things, but frugal is not one of them.

Although it’s outside the subject, I think they got rid of Brocail and Flores because they think they can do better.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to find $3 million shortstops who play like $9 million short stops

That was the father not the sons.

[luismatos4prez]

59 minutes ago, Sydnor said:

This is from the article:

“It’s pretty much the same thing they told (Brocail),” Flores said in a phone interview. “When I received the call from Mike, the GM, he just told me it was a decision that they really didn’t want to make, but that ownership had put pressure on him to decrease the budget and the staff, and I was one of the guys that they decided to let go.”

https://theathletic.com/2109598/2020/10/02/connolly-why-the-orioles-moved-on-from-coaches-doug-brocail-and-jose-flores/

That is probably just sugarcoating the real reasons for firing, right? It seems ludicrous that the 3B coach's salary is significant enough to merit ownership mandates. 

 

[SteveA]

One thing Connelly talks about is that they may go from 8 coaches back to 7, with a current coach (Cossins or Gonzalez) assuming 3BC duties.

So it wouldn't just be a matter of getting rid of a couple coaches who make $400k for a couple who make $275k.  They would actually be completely eliminating one position and saving on another.

Also, with the minor league cutback, they currently have extra minor league coaches in their employ who will not have field jobs.  If they think one of those minor league coaches is a really good major league coaching "prospect" who will earn the "rookie minimum", they can break him in at the MLB level AND save money.

All told though, it's hard to imagine they could save more than about 4 days of Chris Davis's salary no matter what moves they make with the coaching staff 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, luismatos4prez said:

That is probably just sugarcoating the real reasons for firing, right? It seems ludicrous that the 3B coach's salary is significant enough to merit ownership mandates. 

 

Very odd choice of an alternative reason. 

I don't see how this is a good look for the team either with fans or in the industry. 

 

[Sports Guy]

From the article:

 

“That’s what is frustrating,” Brocail said in a phone interview with The Athletic. “We bust our humps and then they told me that they couldn’t afford my salary.”

 

“It’s pretty much the same thing they told (Brocail),” Flores said in a phone interview. “When I received the call from Mike, the GM, he just told me it was a decision that they really didn’t want to make, but that ownership had put pressure on him to decrease the budget and the staff, and I was one of the guys that they decided to let go.”
 

 

[Philip]

It is HIGHLY unlikely they were fired for money reasons. However, when the guys start looking for other work, it’s better to say,” they fired me because of budget cuts” rather than, “Boy I sucked at my job.”

[eddie83]

Multiple things can be true at the same time.
-They may have like Brocail but we’re worried about losing Holt. 

-They may have not been happy with Flores but respected him enough to use money as a reason 

-at end of day they cut a coach from the major league staff. That has to be about money. They aren’t replacing Flores 

All summer long teams, including big market have been cutting employees. Some of course is due to MiL reduction but not all.

This isn’t just an Orioles issue, I will say that. I don’t know how many teams have reduced coaching staffs though.

[Philip]

MEANWHILE, back at the original subject...

3B. In-house or Outside? I guess it comes down to that simple question. 
2B. In-house or Outside?
And by outside, I mean anything. Claimed off waivers, acquired via trade, or signed as a Mil FA or ML FA.

Im voting for outside, because what we have in-house is either bad or not ready.
We will be also be busy in the Rule 5. I predict three selections, two infielders and a RP(poor Drew Jackson. A year too early.)

Other predictions can be made later in other posts.

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, Philip said:

MEANWHILE, back at the original subject...

3B. In-house or Outside? I guess it comes down to that simple question. 
2B. In-house or Outside?
And by outside, I mean anything. Claimed off waivers, acquired via trade, or signed as a Mil FA or ML FA.

Im voting for outside, because what we have in-house is either bad or not ready.
We will be also be busy in the Rule 5. I predict three selections, two infielders and a RP(poor Drew Jackson. A year too early.)

Other predictions can be made later in other posts.

The best way to fill third is via trade and acquire a ML ready or close to ML ready third baseman.  Go after a team with a third baseman who isn’t going anywhere and see if they have a 3rd base prospect who is available.

Looking at teams who are have third baseman who aren’t going anywhere:

Colorado, San Diego, Oakland, Angels, Phillies, White Sox, Phillies, Twins, Reds, Pitt, Red Sox, Astros and probably Cle, although Ramirez can play second too.

Thats at least 12 teams.  Go after those teams.

[ScGO's]

16 minutes ago, Philip said:

MEANWHILE, back at the original subject...

3B. In-house or Outside? I guess it comes down to that simple question. 
2B. In-house or Outside?
And by outside, I mean anything. Claimed off waivers, acquired via trade, or signed as a Mil FA or ML FA.

Im voting for outside, because what we have in-house is either bad or not ready.
We will be also be busy in the Rule 5. I predict three selections, two infielders and a RP(poor Drew Jackson. A year too early.)

Other predictions can be made later in other posts.

I think they will go with Ruiz at 3B and Alberto at 2B with Valaika supporting both positions.  The only FA on the list that was intriguing was Marwin Gonzalez, but only if he is had for very little like 1Year 1Mil.  He would be someone to move between 3rd and 2nd and he could make either Ruiz or Valaika expendable.  They are probably picking up Iglesias contract, so they probably don't want to raise the pay roll with another FA sign.  It will be interesting to see how the Orioles handle the arbitration process if they are truly penny pinching.

[Philip]

30 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

I think they will go with Ruiz at 3B and Alberto at 2B with Valaika supporting both positions.  The only FA on the list that was intriguing was Marwin Gonzalez, but only if he is had for very little like 1Year 1Mil.  He would be someone to move between 3rd and 2nd and he could make either Ruiz or Valaika expendable.  They are probably picking up Iglesias contract, so they probably don't want to raise the pay roll with another FA sign.  It will be interesting to see how the Orioles handle the arbitration process if they are truly penny pinching.

Gonzalez is arguably worse than Ruiz.  .02 fWAR, 66 WRC, but above average D at 2B and 3B.. as much as we need competent defense,... on the other hand, he hits better than Flaherty, and is about equally versatile... would you sign Flaherty for more than about the league minimum? I might prefer Gonzalez to Valiaka, who was also ..02 fWAR, but had a 112 WRC, with dreadful defense at every infield position.

Definitely a conundrum...

[Philip]

40 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

I think they will go with Ruiz at 3B and Alberto at 2B with Valaika supporting both positions.  The only FA on the list that was intriguing was Marwin Gonzalez, but only if he is had for very little like 1Year 1Mil.  He would be someone to move between 3rd and 2nd and he could make either Ruiz or Valaika expendable.  They are probably picking up Iglesias contract, so they probably don't want to raise the pay roll with another FA sign.  It will be interesting to see how the Orioles handle the arbitration process if they are truly penny pinching.

I think Ruiz is gone regardless. We can handle hitters who can’t glove, or vice versa, but we don’t usually put up with guys who can do neither.

[NCRaven]

Occam’s Razor - the simplest explanation is usually right.  If Broccail says that Elias said it was money, and Flores says that Elias says it was money, and industry insiders say it was money...it was probably money.