Cedric Mullins as a CF

[Frobby]

44 minutes ago, Philip said:

Mullins reminds me of AJ Because they both have fun, they both inspire confidence, they both run really well, they are both very graceful, they both have very sure gloves: If they get to the ball, you know they are going to catch the ball. On offense neither walks much but I am unaware of any other similarities, but I’m talking about on defense. Mainly they both inspire great confidence and I love watching them both play.

When you say “neither walks”:  Mullins has walked 8.9% of the time this year, same as the current major league average.   He’s at 7.7% for his career, compared to major league average of 8.6% in that span.   So basically he’s average/slightly below.  

Jones, on the other hand, had a 4.5% walk rate in his career.   He was as low as 2.8% in 2014.    He was always near the top in swinging at pitches outside the zone.   41.5% for his career compared to 28.4% for Mullins.  

So, I think you’d better go with “they were nothing alike offensively.”

Defensively, I also think they’re very different.  Jones is right handed and had a very strong arm for most of his career.   Mullins is left handed and has a below average arm.   Even though I’d say both were fast in their day, they have different running styles.    Jones had very long, loping strides and he loved to catch the ball in stride rather than getting to the spot and camping out under it.   Mullins has shorter strides and is much more prone to getting where he needs to be and waiting.   I’d say Mullins can cover a bit more ground than Jones could even in his early days.   

 

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

When you say “neither walks”:  Mullins has walked 8.9% of the time this year, same as the current major league average.   He’s at 7.7% for his career, compared to major league average of 8.6% in that span.   So basically he’s average/slightly below.  

Jones, on the other hand, had a 4.5% walk rate in his career.   He was as low as 2.8% in 2014.    He was always near the top in swinging at pitches outside the zone.   41.5% for his career compared to 28.4% for Mullins.  

So, I think you’d better go with “they were nothing alike offensively.”

Defensively, I also think they’re very different.  Jones is right handed and had a very strong arm for most of his career.   Mullins is left handed and has a below average arm.   Even though I’d say both were fast in their day, they have different running styles.    Jones had very long, loping strides and he loved to catch the ball in stride rather than getting to the spot and camping out under it.   Mullins has shorter strides and is much more prone to getting where he needs to be and waiting.   I’d say Mullins can cover a bit more ground than Jones could even in his early days.   

 

Fantastic breakdown.  I think Mullins is faster than Jones ever was, too.  Jones was a pretty big guy, not as fast.  Mullins is smaller, more lithe and compact.  He can fly.  

Also, I'm very encouraged but Mullins' walk rate this year so far.  Not only did scrapping the righthanded swing seem to help but he's also improved his plate discipline.  

[Sports Guy]

Hays and Jones are much more alike than Mullins and Jones.

I think Hays is better defensively than Jones was but its close.

[Can_of_corn]

31 minutes ago, oriole said:

Just because the O’s are bad doesn’t mean they need to give away players for less than they think the players are worth. 
 

I think most teams would value Mullins as much as any young player who had significant struggles but has had a couple months of success. I think to the O’s Mullins is finally reaching his potential that  we had all hoped for. He can be a lonesome bright spot in an otherwise completely awful season. If we were trading away good players for whatever teams were offering because we suck anyways then Means would be on the block to the highest bidder with no reserve even if it wasn’t a great offer. I’d like to think Elias won’t be giving anyone of value away just because it’s a rebuilding season. But maybe I’m wrong and we can get a player from a teams top 15-20 for Mullins just because that’s all that’s offered. 

What does that have to do with what I said?

I disagree that Mullins has " more valuable to the O’s than any other team". 

I don't think Elias find value in the idea of Mullins being "a lonesome bright spot".  Does Mullins sell merch, cable tv subscriptions or season tickets?  I don't think so.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

32 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Fantastic breakdown.  I think Mullins is faster than Jones ever was, too.  Jones was a pretty big guy, not as fast.  Mullins is smaller, more lithe and compact.  He can fly.  

Also, I'm very encouraged but Mullins' walk rate this year so far.  Not only did scrapping the righthanded swing seem to help but he's also improved his plate discipline.  

Jones was fast for his size and noticeably slowed down as he got older. Mullins is fast like Al Bumbry (or insert other speedy outfielder) was back in the day, but he needs to cutdown on the stolen base attempts or get better at it. 

[oriole]

32 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

What does that have to do with what I said?

I disagree that Mullins has " more valuable to the O’s than any other team". 

I don't think Elias find value in the idea of Mullins being "a lonesome bright spot".  Does Mullins sell merch, cable tv subscriptions or season tickets?  I don't think so.

Agree to disagree then I suppose. I don’t think trading Mullins for anything less than what you’d expect for a GG caliber CF and everyday lead off hitter would be worth it. Any mention of Mullins’ value being tied to merch and season tickets feels disingenuous considering a team in transition like the Orioles are a sum of its parts rather than a few superstars to promote around. Literally no one is going to buy season tickets to see Mullins play except maybe his Mom and Dad. 

[Yossarian]

I love watching Mullins play.  I love that he made himself into a ball player after nearly being written off.  I always stop what I'm doing (when I'm doing things during a game) when Mullins comes to the plate.  His ability to bunt as well as hit the occasional triple or even home run make him fun to watch.  HIs defense, as evidenced by that catch last night, is great.  The two guys I really make a point to watch on this team are Means and Mullins.  I hope he is an Oriole for a long time.

[Ruzious]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Mullins reminds me of AJ Because they both have fun, they both inspire confidence, they both run really well, they are both very graceful, they both have very sure gloves: If they get to the ball, you know they are going to catch the ball. On offense neither walks much but I am unaware of any other similarities, but I’m talking about on defense. Mainly they both inspire great confidence and I love watching them both play.

I don't think I've ever seen Mullins smile - he seems so serious, while Adam was very loose and easy-going and quick to laugh.  Defensively, Mullins is faster and understands he's got to throw to the cutoff men because of his weak arm.  Jones had a much stronger arm, but was inaccurate and took far too many chances trying to get base-runners going home instead of hitting the cutoff man.  Offensively, Adam batted righty and was an absolute sucker for low and outside sliders - a foot outside and in the dirt, and he'd still swing at most of them.  He was never any good at stealing bases - he was more of a long-strider.  Mullins bats lefty, doesn't have quite the power that Adam has, but is a much better base stealer and also shows the ability to bunt - which Adam didn't.  Mullins seems more or a selective hitter than Adam.    

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, oriole said:

Agree to disagree then I suppose. I don’t think trading Mullins for anything less than what you’d expect for a GG caliber CF and everyday lead off hitter would be worth it. Any mention of Mullins’ value being tied to merch and season tickets feels disingenuous considering a team in transition like the Orioles are a sum of its parts rather than a few superstars to promote around. Literally no one is going to buy season tickets to see Mullins play except maybe his Mom and Dad. 

How so?

We are talking value.  The stuff I mentioned brings revenue to the team.  That means more than if the team wins 60 or 64 games this year.

The question for the Orioles is, is it better for the future competitive O's for the current O's to trade Mullins or not.

But that is still irrelevant with the idea that Mullins is worth more to this club than to a club that is trying to be competitive and needs an outfielder.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

How so?

We are talking value.  The stuff I mentioned brings revenue to the team.  That means more than if the team wins 60 or 64 games this year.

The question for the Orioles is, is it better for the future competitive O's for the current O's to trade Mullins or not.

But that is still irrelevant with the idea that Mullins is worth more to this club than to a club that is trying to be competitive and needs an outfielder.

I think his point is that teams won’t trade us enough to justify moving, thus the “he is more valuable to us” comment.

And I think he’s right.  

[Frobby]

27 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Jones was fast for his size and noticeably slowed down as he got older. Mullins is fast like Al Bumbry (or insert other speedy outfielder) was back in the day, but he needs to cutdown on the stolen base attempts or get better at it. 

Well, he’s been successful on his last three, to raise his success rate this year from 60% to 69%.    Generally 71% is about the break even point.   

In the minors he was successful 81% of the time, so hopefully he will keep improving his major league success rate as he gets experience and learns the pitchers, etc.
 

[Frobby]

56 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Hays and Jones are much more alike than Mullins and Jones.

I think Hays is better defensively than Jones was but its close.

I agree with the first sentence 100%.    Hays and Jones are very similar, with the exception that Hays has been injury prone whereas Jones became a very durable player after sustaining a couple of injuries in his early career.    

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Jones was fast for his size and noticeably slowed down as he got older. Mullins is fast like Al Bumbry (or insert other speedy outfielder) was back in the day, but he needs to cutdown on the stolen base attempts or get better at it. 

It is a bit odd that he's not a good base stealer, given how fast he is.  I'm assuming he just doesn't have the technique down.  Strange, considering you'd think that whoever coached him up would want him to be really good at it given his natural speed. 

[Philip]

53 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

I don't think I've ever seen Mullins smile - he seems so serious, while Adam was very loose and easy-going and quick to laugh.  Defensively, Mullins is faster and understands he's got to throw to the cutoff men because of his weak arm.  Jones had a much stronger arm, but was inaccurate and took far too many chances trying to get base-runners going home instead of hitting the cutoff man.  Offensively, Adam batted righty and was an absolute sucker for low and outside sliders - a foot outside and in the dirt, and he'd still swing at most of them.  He was never any good at stealing bases - he was more of a long-strider.  Mullins bats lefty, doesn't have quite the power that Adam has, but is a much better base stealer and also shows the ability to bunt - which Adam didn't.  Mullins seems more or a selective hitter than Adam.    

All right, well I guess I have to grant that I am basing my comparison on absolutely nothing at all except my own enjoyment of each player, I would not compare Mullins to Markakis, even though I loved Markakis, and Mullins always appeared to need to be enjoying himself just as much as Jones does, where as Markakis on the other hand I don’t think I’ve ever seen him crack a smile, But I enjoyed him no less for all that. He just came across as all business. So they are very different on offense and on defense, and so what, they bring each other to mind, and I love them both. And that’s OK.

I always loved Nate McLouth, too, he had the best ever walk up music. I also loved Joey and David Lough, and I quite fond of Lew Ford as well, though I have no idea whether he was actually good with the glove or not. 
And I haaaaated Trumbo.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Philip

[oriole]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

How so?

We are talking value.  The stuff I mentioned brings revenue to the team.  That means more than if the team wins 60 or 64 games this year.

The question for the Orioles is, is it better for the future competitive O's for the current O's to trade Mullins or not.

But that is still irrelevant with the idea that Mullins is worth more to this club than to a club that is trying to be competitive and needs an outfielder.

It’s better for the future if you trade everyone on the major league roster for someone who might help later. That doesn’t mean you should do it though unless the return is equal or greater to your own evaluation of the player. I see no reason to give Mullins away and considering I don’t think you’re implying that they should just give him away I’m having trouble understanding the disconnect here. Mullins should net, IMO, a couple top 10 organizational prospects. That’s because I view him as an everyday CF with excess value based on the amount of control left and he’s cheap right now. If someone doesn’t offer that (and I don’t think they will right now) then I don’t see any reason to trade him.