O's Dynamic Duo

[wildcard]

 Not since 2016 have the O's had a starting staff led by two pitchers like All Star John Means and Best Starting Prospect in the minors Grayson Rodriguez.   In 2016 All Star Chris Tillman and 1st round draft pick Kevin Gausman led the team to 89 wins.   While I am not suggesting that kind of win numbers for the 2022 O's,  these two starters throwing to Adley Rutschman should be special.

Tillman was an All-Star in 2013 and in 2016  went 16-6,  3.77 ERA in 30 Starts and 172 IP at age 28.   Means was an All-Star in 2019  and is coming off a 2021 season where he put up a 3.62 ERA in 146.2 IP at age 28.     The quality of Means pitches are on a par with Tillman but he has yet to stay healthy all season and some where in the 150 inning range should be projected for him in 2022.   It would be helpful if we knew what the MLB rules will be the ball and what can be used to help the pitchers grip it.

In 2016 Gausman had a 9-12, 3.61 ERA and 30 starts and 179 IP at age 25.   This was his 4th season where he spend time in the majors.   Grayson may not even begin the season in the majors because he has not yet pitched at AAA but he will probably have the best arm and stuff in Spring  Training.    At age 22 he will probably be on an innings limit of around 135 IP for the season.  I anticipate that he will show well in ST and be promoted to the majors  after about 4 starts and 20 IP at AAA.  So for about 20-23 starts in the majors I hope he will join Means at the top  of the rotation in 2022.

I look forward to seeing Means and Grayson at the top of the rotation and though the number of innings pitched will not rival the 2016 Tillman and Gausman innings  the quality of the starts could certainly be there.

[Frobby]

Tillman and Gausman also were on the team in 2017 and 2018.    Though Tillman shouldn’t have been on the team in ‘18, and should have been removed from the roster sooner in ‘17.    

Means does seem comparable to Tillman, though he’s not eating as many innings.   I’m hoping Rodriguez will be better than Gausman was as an Oriole.   I think he will be.   Not necessarily this year.   
 

[wildcard]

27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

 

Means does seem comparable to Tillman, though he’s not eating as many innings.   

I said Means did not pitch as many innings.  I think they are comparable in the effectiveness of their pitches.

[scOtt]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

It would be helpful if we knew what the MLB rules will be the ball and what can be used to help the pitchers grip it.

Just as an aside... that's not a bargaining issue, is it? Can't MLB unilaterally implement whatever they want?

[Sports Guy]

I would take Means over Tillman every day of the week.  I never understood how Tillman ever got guys out on a regular basis.

[waroriole]

55 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I would take Means over Tillman every day of the week.  I never understood how Tillman ever got guys out on a regular basis.

He had a good hook and knew how and when to throw his FB up in the zone.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, waroriole said:

He had a good hook and knew how and when to throw his FB up in the zone.

Yea but his stuff was terrible.  I just never understood it.  He did a great job of getting by while being pretty mediocre.  
 

I have much more faith in Means than I ever did Tillman.

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea but his stuff was terrible.  I just never understood it.  He did a great job of getting by while being pretty mediocre.  
 

I have much more faith in Means than I ever did Tillman.

Hyperbole much?

His stuff was pretty average.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Hyperbole much?

His stuff was pretty average.

Ugh..I hated watching him pitch.  His fastball was mediocre.  His curve wasn’t bad if he could command it.

He obviously did some things right for a short period of time but I never felt comfortable with him out there.

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Ugh..I hated watching him pitch.  His fastball was mediocre.  His curve wasn’t bad if he could command it.

He obviously did some things right for a short period of time but I never felt comfortable with him out there.

I don’t disagree in the slightest, but I kind of liked watching him pitch, because he looked like a 12 year old throwing tennis balls, and yet he was successful. There is a definite magic to watching someone succeed even when analytically they should not.
It was obvious to everyone in the world that he was finished long before Buck insisted that he get that guaranteed 3 million, but he was a good pitcher, And I’m glad we had him.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

I don’t disagree in the slightest, but I kind of liked watching him pitch, because he looked like a 12 year old throwing tennis balls, and yet he was successful. There is a definite magic to watching someone succeed even when analytically they should not.
It was obvious to everyone in the world that he was finished long before Buck insisted that he get that guaranteed 3 million, but he was a good pitcher, And I’m glad we had him.

No doubt he was successful from 2012-2016 (except 2015 wasn’t a good year).

I just, to this day, have no idea how he did it.  His K and BB rates were mediocre, his str% were mediocre, he didn’t miss a lot of bats, he had a mediocre HR rate and his FIP and xFIP were almost always higher than his ERA..,yet he performed well despite all of that.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

No doubt he was successful from 2012-2016 (except 2015 wasn’t a good year).

I just, to this day, have no idea how he did it.  His K and BB rates were mediocre, his str% were mediocre, he didn’t miss a lot of bats, he had a mediocre HR rate and his FIP and xFIP were almost always higher than his ERA..,yet he performed well despite all of that.  

TTTP.

 

He was aces at controlling the running game.

Probably why Buck wanted to keep him around.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

TTTP.

 

He was aces at controlling the running game.

Probably why Buck wanted to keep him around.

That’s true.  He did do a great job of that worthless thing.  lol 

[sevastras]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

TTTP.

 

He was aces at controlling the running game.

Probably why Buck wanted to keep him around.

On that note, will Buck preach TTTP to DeGrom and Scherzer?  I dont see that going over well with two successful pitchers on the back end of their careers.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sevastras said:

On that note, will Buck preach TTTP to DeGrom and Scherzer?  I dont see that going over well with two successful pitchers on the back end of their careers.

Buck seem to be more about browbeating the rookies and minor leaguers than he does trying to tangle with Vets.