BP's Orioles Top 10 List

[jabba72]

I'll echo that podcasts are definitely something that would get your scouting reports out to more O's fans. At the end of the day thats who your really making it for anyway. Tony's prospect list of 75 is unparalleled, maybe across baseball. I guess its unrealistic to expect him to keep it up. 

[Tony-OH]

28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I understand everything you are saying but I’m wondering if you have any interest in marketing yourself/the list/the site differently?

Obviously there is a big following on the board but where people are getting views nowadays are podcasts.

There are several Os podcasts out there and I can’t even listen to them because of how bad their Twitter points are.  They have big followings though even though the knowledge just isn’t there.  
 

You could easily get good guests, promote the site and list, etc…

The “kids” who are doing this are doing a good job of marketing.  That’s not to say some don’t know what they are talking about but most don’t but social media and the presence of it is driving them.

 

Thanks. I will definitely admit the "kids" out there doing podcasts have a better feel for that portion. I just don't have any interest in taking all the time it takes to put it together. With Michael gone, I'm basically a one man crew outside of the people that volunteer to do some basic moderating and of course Chuck doing his game reports and minor league summaries. 

I'm not really looking to expand my reach necessarily, though being on 105.7 weekly certainly helps and I imagine that will continue as long as Bob is still on there! 

I really need a hard charging person who wants to collaborate and bring new ideas to the site, but I really haven't advertised.

 

[btdart20]

I've been a lurker for years.  Orioles Hangout has always been my go-to spot for anything Oriole related.  Just in the past couple of weeks have I started posting (meaningfully at least).  I'm stoked about the direction the O's are heading.  A significant part of my excitement is from the information you provide. 

The national writers have too many competing priorities:  clicks, echo chamber, justify the expense...  And the "kids" (as SG framed them ) are influenced by that to a degree as well.

OH has a purity about it.  There's a love beyond the metrics.  And it starts with you, Tony.  

[Sports Guy]

13 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

I've been a lurker for years.  Orioles Hangout has always been my go-to spot for anything Oriole related.  Just in the past couple of weeks have I started posting (meaningfully at least).  I'm stoked about the direction the O's are heading.  A significant part of my excitement is from the information you provide. 

The national writers have too many competing priorities:  clicks, echo chamber, justify the expense...  And the "kids" (as SG framed them ) are influenced by that to a degree as well.

OH has a purity about it.  There's a love beyond the metrics.  And it starts with you, Tony.  

Well Tony referred to the kids.  LoL

But he’s not wrong either.  I don’t find the info being put out by many of them to be that well researched or that thorough.  The OTV guys do a good job but they are the exception, not the rule.  Most of the other people just regurgitate stuff from Law, BA, etc….

Tony, moreso than probably anyone else, talks to multiple people, has connections inside the warehouse and watches these guys a lot.  
 

But he has to get that out there if he wants his work more appreciated and let’s be honest, if you are going to put in the time to do it, you should want and get that appreciation.  Nothing wrong with that.

But each players write up and ranking should go on Twitter and IG.  A weekly OH podcast could be good.  Stuff like that.

 

[wildcard]

I think Tony is perfectly positioned.   He knows more about the O's prospects  than  any one in media and the O's are going to take off in the next two years.  Interest should get higher and higher.

Maybe teaming up with one of these kids doing the podcast would work.  They handle on the technical stuff and Tony adds contain.  

I can't even get through these podcasts because they do not know what they talking about and  have even less to say.   Even MASN All Access is pretty terrible.  Though I do listen to most of their stuff in the off season because I need something O's related.

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

I think Tony is perfectly positioned.   He knows more about the O's prospects  than  any one in media and the O's are going to take off in the next two years.  Interest should get higher and higher.

I think this is a great point.

Being the first one on Mayo, for example, will even add credibility.

[RZNJ]

7 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Well Tony referred to the kids.  LoL

But he’s not wrong either.  I don’t find the info being put out by many of them to be that well researched or that thorough.  The OTV guys do a good job but they are the exception, not the rule.  Most of the other people just regurgitate stuff from Law, BA, etc….

Tony, moreso than probably anyone else, talks to multiple people, has connections inside the warehouse and watches these guys a lot.  
 

But he has to get that out there if he wants his work more appreciated and let’s be honest, if you are going to put in the time to do it, you should want and get that appreciation.  Nothing wrong with that.

But each players write up and ranking should go on Twitter and IG.  A weekly OH podcast could be good.  Stuff like that.

 

Tony, isn't looking for respect outside of Orioles Hangout.  He's looking for it within Orioles Hangout.   That's got nothing to do with putting his stuff "out there".    How do I say this and both show respect and admiration for Tony but at the same time telling him to chill out a little bit.   I believe I'm speaking for virtually everyone here when I say that we appreciate this site.   It's the best place an Orioles fan can come.   Tony also has a scouting background and his prospect lists are more comprehensive and done with more insight than anyone else's list, including Baseball America.   At the same time, no matter how good his list is, not matter how much time and work went into it, comparisons to other lists, mentioning other lists,  even questioning an expert (Tony) by non experts (most of us) just comes with the territory.

So Tony, coming from someone who has pissed you off in the past, I admire your work greatly.  Mentioning some guy or publication that put a list together with much less insight and knowledge than you have is not a slight on you.   It's just crazy Orioles fans trying to get their eyes and hands on as much Oriole information as possible and talking about the ORIOLES.   I hope you continue to do what's best for you.     Maybe we need a Tony Pente appreciation thread (not joking) because I think you really just feel under appreciated at times.   I'm as guilty as anyone for not giving you the credit and props you deserve for giving us a place to come and talk and gather information on the Orioles for so many years now.   Thank you.

[Sports Guy]

The thing for me is that I believe Tony does this list the right way.  Its the same way I have always tried to do it and I just feel its the best way to do it.

The idea of who would you rather have.  I think that means everything.  

For example, the one list had Bradish 7th and I believe Mayo after that.  Who in their right mind would rather have Bradish than Mayo?  That just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Now, I may disagree with Tony (or whoever) on which player I would rather have in any one conversation but I think that's the best way to do it.  To me, when you do it that way, you are taking all aspects into account.  Scouting, performance, age, etc....If you tell me, you are taking Bradish over Mayo or Stowers or Kjerstad, you are saying he is closer to the majors and has a lower floor.  To me, it has to be more than that.

A lot of people have a guy like Bradish over say, Basallo.  If another organization had a Bradish clone, would you trade Basallo for that player?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Frobby]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The thing for me is that I believe Tony does this list the right way.  Its the same way I have always tried to do it and I just feel its the best way to do it.

The idea of who would you rather have.  I think that means everything.  

For example, the one list had Bradish 7th and I believe Mayo after that.  Who in their right mind would rather have Bradish than Mayo?  That just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Now, I may disagree with Tony (or whoever) on which player I would rather have in any one conversation but I think that's the best way to do it.  To me, when you do it that way, you are taking all aspects into account.  Scouting, performance, age, etc....If you tell me, you are taking Bradish over Mayo or Stowers or Kjerstad, you are saying he is closer to the majors and has a lower floor.  To me, it has to be more than that.

A lot of people have a guy like Bradish over say, Basallo.  If another organization had a Bradish clone, would you trade Basallo for that player?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

Depends on your appetite for risk.   Bradish is a step away from the majors and had pretty good success at AAA.   You might think Basallo has more upside, but he hasn’t really been tested against high level competition.   

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Tony, isn't looking for respect outside of Orioles Hangout.  He's looking for it within Orioles Hangout.   That's got nothing to do with putting his stuff "out there".    How do I say this and both show respect and admiration for Tony but at the same time telling him to chill out a little bit.   I believe I'm speaking for virtually everyone here when I say that we appreciate this site.   It's the best place an Orioles fan can come.   Tony also has a scouting background and his prospect lists are more comprehensive and done with more insight than anyone else's list, including Baseball America.   At the same time, no matter how good his list is, not matter how much time and work went into it, comparisons to other lists, mentioning other lists,  even questioning an expert (Tony) by non experts (most of us) just comes with the territory.

So Tony, coming from someone who has pissed you off in the past, I admire your work greatly.  Mentioning some guy or publication that put a list together with much less insight and knowledge than you have is not a slight on you.   It's just crazy Orioles fans trying to get their eyes and hands on as much Oriole information as possible and talking about the ORIOLES.   I hope you continue to do what's best for you.     Maybe we need a Tony Pente appreciation thread (not joking) because I think you really just feel under appreciated at times.   I'm as guilty as anyone for not giving you the credit and props you deserve for giving us a place to come and talk and gather information on the Orioles for so many years now.   Thank you.

Thanks, appreciate it, but I do want to clear up one thing. I don't have any issue with people mentioning other lists and talking about it, but occasionally I start seeing people who seem to insinuate these other lists are more accurate because they are more closely aligned. My argument there is most of these sites are just regurgitating information they've found vs doing the hours of video and in person scouting that needs to go into these to be something more than a regurgitation of other people's work.

I'm by no means perfect, but I do put the time in, especially last year when I probably put in the most hours since the early 2000s when I used to go to 60+ games in person. But back then, I was really still learning and didn't have the info that i have now. I honestly believe is I had the stat cast data as well, I'd be pretty darn close on my assessments of guys.

Have players under performed my assessments, sure, occasionally. Dean Kremer is a good example but I've learned some things by watching how Kremer plays out. The book is still not totally out in him, but it has made me grade fastball, curveball combos harder for potential starters. Now, I do think the MLB ball has affected him and his ability to get that sharp break on his curveball;; consistently. Hopefully MLB will pay to have the same ball used throughout the minors.

You were right about I care much more how Hangouters think of my work then across the internet. The media is full of a bunch of underpaid cronies, most of which have very thin skin, so I could care less what they say or don't say anymore. I also don't really care about the opinions of the kind of fans that are worried about being first on a blog. I care about the smart baseball people that are Hangouters. I hope that they look at my list as the defining list when it comes to prospects.

Trust me, I value and respect Hangouters opinions on players. We have a lot of very smart people who spend a lot of time following and even watching the prospects as they come up. I enjoy the back and forth with people, even if they have differing opinions on players than I do. Heck, it would be boring if all everyone did was agree with me, but I take that as a challenge and it makes me work harder to prove that my final assessment is correct.

Saying all that, I really don't know how next year will shape up for me. Losing Michael was hurtful in many ways, but he was always the guy behind the scenes that kept me motivated and going. I can honestly say that I'm not sure whether I'd still be doing this without his encouragement over the last 4-5 years or so.

Now I'll never let this board die off and would rather sell it before allowing it just to close because I know how much this community means to so many of us, and that includes me!

I just have to see what my time availability will be this coming year and how my motivation is once the season starts. 

 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The thing for me is that I believe Tony does this list the right way.  Its the same way I have always tried to do it and I just feel its the best way to do it.

The idea of who would you rather have.  I think that means everything.  

For example, the one list had Bradish 7th and I believe Mayo after that.  Who in their right mind would rather have Bradish than Mayo?  That just doesn't make sense to me at all.

Now, I may disagree with Tony (or whoever) on which player I would rather have in any one conversation but I think that's the best way to do it.  To me, when you do it that way, you are taking all aspects into account.  Scouting, performance, age, etc....If you tell me, you are taking Bradish over Mayo or Stowers or Kjerstad, you are saying he is closer to the majors and has a lower floor.  To me, it has to be more than that.

A lot of people have a guy like Bradish over say, Basallo.  If another organization had a Bradish clone, would you trade Basallo for that player?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

I ask myself literally that question when I do my rankings. For me, being closer to the majors and productive does give a player an edge to someone father away because they are performing against high level competition, but if the younger  player has a much higher ceiling, I ask myself, would I rather have a power hitting catcher in my system or a 7th inning guy?

Who is harder to find?

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Depends on your appetite for risk.   Bradish is a step away from the majors and had pretty good success at AAA.   You might think Basallo has more upside, but he hasn’t really been tested against high level competition.   

No question.  That is what it’s about.  But if you say to me, who would I rather have.  It’s a no brainer for me.  
 

But again, that’s the differences in how people do rankings.  When Tony asks us, who do you think goes here, I’m usually in line with him or we are close.  Tony has obviously seen these guys more than I have but I think his thinking and the way he does it is the right way.

Others would disagree and that’s fine. I understand that. Its just a different strategy.