The Final Straw? Elias to Trade Mancini

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'd argue that they haven't been consistently well run since the 1970s.  We've discussed recently the fact that they got essentially nothing at all out of the 1980-86 drafts, and that was also the period where the only free agents they'd sign were 33-year-olds who'd been stars five years ago.  The Camden Yards money papered over a lot of flaws in the 90s, and Duquette's and Buck's creativity won some games in the 2012-16 timeframe.  But the franchise has had some serious holes continuously since the early 80s.

I agree. I didn't include the earlier dates because the team won some games (and I agree that Camden Yards related cash plus Ripken streak papered over a lot of flaws, but they also won a decent number of games in the '80s) and I wasn't a fan until 1991-1992 (moved to the area right before Camden Yards opened and got hooked) so I wasn't paying attention to the O's in the '80s. 

[Justinlstn]

I rather move him to give him a chance at playing on a contender.  After he's been through he deserves a chance because I don't see him getting there with the Orioles. He's 30 now, this is when most hitters decline. He's a good player, but probably has maybe 4 or 5 years left. 

 

*Take a admin delete the duplication if possible. Website said first attempt didnt go through and I hit it again I had multiples.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Justinlstn
i'm dumb

[Justinlstn]

I rather move him to give him a chance at playing on a contender.  After he's been through he deserves a chance because I don't see him getting there with the Orioles. He's 30 now, this is when most hitters decline. He's a good player, but probably has maybe 4 or 5 years left. 

[Ruzious]

4 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

We have become the joke of mlb and just a pass through for winning franchises, makes me sick. Mancini is a leader and role model for fans of all ages. Mancini is about more than baseball to me. 

So... you're saying he's about losing a record number of games?  

[btdart20]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Terrible thread title.   It made it seem like there was actual information that a trade was imminent.   Then I saw it was a reference to Dan Connolly’s half-baked speculation.  

I’d have no problem whatsoever if they trade Mancini, though if it was a pure salary dump I’d be upset.   
 

  Yep...  I'll also add that with the amount of venom in O's fandom and regarding the CBA, the deck is stacking against any realistic return from Mancini being viewed as anything other than a salary dump.  

[Moose Milligan]

SG!!  Tell us that he needs to go to San Diego!

49 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Terrible thread title.   It made it seem like there was actual information that a trade was imminent.   Then I saw it was a reference to Dan Connolly’s half-baked speculation.  

I’d have no problem whatsoever if they trade Mancini, though if it was a pure salary dump I’d be upset.   
 

Agreed, I thought something was cooking.  Kinda disappointed that something isn't cooking, but whatever.  

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

  Yep...  I'll also add that with the amount of venom in O's fandom and regarding the CBA, the deck is stacking against any realistic return from Mancini being viewed as anything other than a salary dump.  

I don’t care how the average fan perceives it.  I care about the quality of any minor league talent we’d get back, as analyzed by people who follow the minor leagues closely.   There’s a difference between, for example, getting Elio Prado and Noelberth Romero, vs. getting Easton Lucas or Jack Zoellner.   I’d hope we can do a little better than the former.   The latter two would be unacceptable.  

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t care how the average fan perceives it.  I care about the quality of any minor league talent we’d get back, as analyzed by people who follow the minor leagues closely.   There’s a difference between, for example, getting Elio Prado and Noelberth Romero, vs. getting Easton Lucas or Jack Zoellner.   I’d hope we can do a little better than the former.   The latter two would be unacceptable.  

The best part is that you know someone will defend the players.  I still recall how excited folks were over the two former 16th round draft picks the O's got in the Matusz salary dump.

Hey Brandon Barker pitched in the Indy league last year, keep the dream alive!

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

A trade of Trey will have to be seen, and in fact will be, at least in part a salary dump: the Orioles will be removing their highest-salary player from their roster and probably would be replacing him on that roster with a guy making the minimum MLB salary. There may be other motivations. The trade may be in the team's best interest. It may be in Trey's best interests. But when the team with MLB's lowest payroll (or almost lowest payroll) reduces that payroll by over 10 percent, of course that will be, and will be seen as, a cost-saving measure.

Unlike most of the Orioles' moves, a trade of Trey would be noticed not by just this Board, or just by Oriole fans. The extremism of the Orioles' salary reduction measures has caught the attention and led to a negative reaction by baseball fans generally, of the players' union and individual players, and no doubt other teams. Those instances of cost-cutting involved the extent of the Orioles' holding down payroll by loading their MLB roster with low-salaried players. If the Orioles trade one of their very few well known and celebrated players for marginal major leaguers or prospects, that will be noticed across the baseball world. And whatever factors induce the Orioles to trade Mancini, I wouldn't expect the baseball world to see that trade as an effort to improve the team or create roster flexibility.

This post states, about 10 times, the least important thing to actually making a good team. You don't trade or not trade people based on optics. You implement a plan and see it through. For better or worse, trading Mancini would be consistent with a good plan that is already optically bad. So what. 

[spiritof66]

6 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

This post states, about 10 times, the least important thing to actually making a good team. You don't trade or not trade people based on optics. You implement a plan and see it through. For better or worse, trading Mancini would be consistent with a good plan that is already optically bad. So what. 

Sorry if I'm too repetitive for your taste. The subject that I was commenting on was the likely reaction to a trade of Mancini. Not the most important question the Orioles face, but I do think the fallout from a Mancini trade, in the form of both his absence from the team and adding to the mounting negative reaction to the Orioles, will have a harmful effect on the team beyond this season.

While I don't agree that the Orioles are following a good plan for being competitive, I agree that trading Mancini is consistent with what they're doing. I don't think trading Mancini now would further the team's chances for success under what Elias says is its plan -- as opposed to furthering the Angeloses' financial objectives -- unless the Orioles get back pieces that they think have a good chance to improve the major-league team in the future.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

SG!!  Tell us that he needs to go to San Diego!

Agreed, I thought something was cooking.  Kinda disappointed that something isn't cooking, but whatever.  

SD got Voit.  They out.

[Three Run Homer]

I will be fine with them trading Mancini if they get one or more real prospects back.   (See e.g. the Dylan Bundy trade)

I will be furious with them trading Mancini if it's a salary dump with only token prospects coming back.   (See e.g. the Jonathan Villar trade)

[RocBball11]

9 hours ago, TradeAngelos said:

He literally said I love what the organization is doing and am "excited" to watch a 30m payroll get smoked for 162 games.  Talk about brainwashed. 

We've been watching this movie for 20 years, we know exactly what they are doing behind the scenes.

Not allowing their broadcast team to travel to save a $1000 bucks. That is what they are doing.  

I’d respectfully disagree. 
 

it’s funny as my 20 year memory doesn’t include a top ranked farm system, a fancy Dominican facility, an average of 15 latin singings per year, advanced analytics approach. 
 

the John Angelo’s and Elias partnership is grossly different then anything we’ve seen since the hey day of the Oriole Way.

 

 

 

[Jammer7]

The whiny sentiment to sign Mancini to an extension is somewhat similar to the the fans demanding the team re-sign Chris Davis. Mike Elias does not run the team this way, and I am grateful. Mancini and Means will get paid the industry value for their services through arbitration, so what? Some act like this is only in Baltimore. And some just can’t wait to take a shot at Elias, even if it is short-sighted and misguided. Making business decisions with the emotion of fans is not how you run a sports franchise. 

Trading Trey, a good dude and all, is not about the salary dump as much as it is that the value he brings is likely replaced by other players and it will cost less money. Trey is a solid DH/1B, but not in the top 20 at that position for me. 

With Trey moving on, several players can rest their legs and DH. Adley, Santander, Mountcastle, Stewart/Stowers/Neustrom/Diaz/Nevin and others will benefit from this move. Getting Adley to DH/1B some can get him more at bats without the bearing he takes behind the plate. He gets to catch around 100-110 games and DH/1B another 30-40. Maybe get Santander some days of his legs and get more production out of him.

The Orioles love the guy, but business is business. We all hope Trey gets to a competitive team. And I am sure Mike Elias, Brandon Hyde and ownership do too. But going forward, according to their plan, it is best for the Orioles to move him. 

[Just Regular]

Sentimentally, I'd prefer Mancini on a 1-year deal on the 2023 Orioles.   Then he'll be the kind of competent middle class of player I hope the team invests in several of.    If 2023 is gunning for AL 6th place, I don't feel like Santander-Stowers couldn't use his help in DH mix.    One might not be here, and one might strike out .350 in AAA.

Chances are, his age 30-31 2022-2023 will be close to the last couple few seasons he can still give that 118 OPS+ cromulence before the fastballs start whizzing by too fast for his 32-34 reflexes.

Ballplayers want money, then dogpiles, then maybe sentiment.    If we keep him now for another 98 losses, I feel he will and should try to find a decent team for once before the sun sets.    If we find him a home, and a year from now our Playoff Odds are 6% like today's Rangers, that's better the whole way around.

I hope next offseason people are ready to wait out Mancini's free agency the same as most bat-first players of his ilk experience when they get older.